Help! - Kerb Weight and Max Towing Weight

[RogerP]

I'm looking to change my car from a 'gas guzzler'. To something smaller

When I'm looking at the facts & figures there's the Kerb weight and then the Max Towing Weight (Braked).

Often the latter value is either a lot higher or lower than the Kerb Weight.

What figure should I be taking when trying to calculate if the car is suitable for my van?

A tad confused.

 

[rayc]

roger, The maximum Towing Weight {braked} is the maximum weight you can tow irrespective of anything else. If it is below the car kerb weight then it is still all you can legally tow.

The kerb weight of the vehicle is not so simple. If you have only got group B on your licence {i.e. not B+E} then you can not tow a caravan with a MPTLM exceeding it.

If you have B+E you can legally tow a van exceeding the kerbweight of the vehicle up to the Maximum Towing Weight. I am not advising that you do so and all reputable sources advise that you aim for a van weighing 85% of the car kerb weight.

 

[Lutz]

Legally binding is the maximum permissible towing weight, regardless of whether it is higher or lower than the kerbweight. Note, however, that the towing weight is not the total weight of the caravan but only its axle load. The difference between total weight and axle load, i.e. the noseweight, counts towards the payload of the car.

If you passed your driving test after the 1st January 1997 you may not tow a caravan with a maximum permissible weight greater than the kerbweight of the car unless you have a category B+E licence.

From the nature of your question I gather that you are new to caravanning, in which case it is recommended that the maximum weight of the caravan should not exceed 85% of the kerbweight of the car. Beware, however, that a few cars have a legal limit which is less than this figure, in which case the lower of the two applies.

 

[David_from_Ashby]

Hi Roger

A good starting point is take the MTPLM of your van. This should be no higher than 85% of the kerb weight of the car and should also not exceed the maximum towing limit for the car. Then there is the final check that the total weight of the car plus occupants plus (car based) luggage plus loaded caravan must be less than the gross train weight for the car also.

As an example, take a Honda CR-V.

Kerb Weight 1660kg

Weight of luggage and occupants 330kg (2 adults, 2 kids plus luggage)

Max towing weight (braked) 2000kg (defined by Honda)

Max gross train weight 4160kg (defined by Honda)

Caravan MTPLM 1300kg

Caravan is 78% of kerb weight, below the towing limit of the car and the gross train weight of 3290kg (1660+330+1300) is well below the manufacturers (legal) limit

Other checks you could consider are making sure that neither axle on the car exceeds its maximum limit. So in this example above, If I loaded the CR-V boot with house bricks and then hitched up the caravan (noseweight 100kg) then I would probably be exceeding the axle limit.

Hope that helps.

David

 

[RogerP]

thanks for the information.

I've being driving for over 20+ years so the Licence thing is not such a concearn.

I started towing last year but having a huge 4x4 and a fairly light van the match is currently about 73% so its not something I've had to worry about.

However moving to a smaller vehicle I want to ideally be no more than the 85% match.

Some of the cars on my short list , as my post mentioned , showed the Max Braked weight as lower than the kerb weight and this confused me a bit.

Thanks for the help its certainly fine tuning my list of cars.

 

[Lutz]

Note that most car manufacturers quote a kerbweight which includes the weight of the driver, which is not strictly true. Kerbweight, according to UK convention, is without the driver. What the car manufacturers are actually referring to the MIRO, or mass in running order which, by definition, does include the driver. UK law relating to driving licence requirements needs to be brought into line with this change in standard.

Regardless of the above, if you want an accurate figure for kerbweight, you will have to have your car weighed. Published data, from whatever source, is only a guideline.

 

[David_from_Ashby]

thanks for the information.

I've being driving for over 20+ years so the Licence thing is not such a concearn.

I started towing last year but having a huge 4x4 and a fairly light van the match is currently about 73% so its not something I've had to worry about.

However moving to a smaller vehicle I want to ideally be no more than the 85% match.

Some of the cars on my short list , as my post mentioned , showed the Max Braked weight as lower than the kerb weight and this confused me a bit.

Thanks for the help its certainly fine tuning my list of cars.

If you are considering any Renaults, make sure you check the gross train weight, as this is often allows you the maximum towing weight with just the driver in the car.

Cheers

David

 

[RogerL]

Some UK law (Construction & Use regulations) use a definition of kerbweight with full fuel tank but excluding driver. Other UK law such as V5 documentation uses the EC definition of kerbweight which is 90% full plus 75kg driver. The difference between the two is about 70kg and varies only a small amount due to fuel tank size.

The current Towing Code uses the lower UK C&U definition although the new, revised Towing Code will use the higher EC definition. However no date has been set for issue of the revised Towing Code.

 

[Lutz]

In order to avoid the confusion, I prefer to stick to the term MIRO when EU standards (such as in the Construction and Use Regulations) apply and use the term kerbweight only when the old UK definition applies. I think you'll find that none of the EU Directives talk about kerbweight.

Note that the old definition also still applies to driving licence requirements.

 

[RogerL]

Harmonisation legislation has only had limited success.

The term MIRO isn't commonly used for cars in the UK.

UK and continental caravan manufacturers vary on their definition of MIRO - UK makers don't include battery, gas or fluids but many continental makers do!

 

[Lutz]

The reason for any difference in MIRO content between Continental and UK caravans is that EU Directives defining weight cover motor vehicles (including motor homes) and commercial trailers only. However, there is no standard for caravans so every manufacturer can include or exclude items in their MIRO data, at their own discretion.

 

[MikeMc]

If you are in doubt then there is an excellent outfit checker on the towsure site, it will give you your % ratio. URL is http://www.towsure.com/bespoke/outfit-matcher.html

 

[Lutz]

The Towsure site, like the similar Whattowcar one, are OK for a rough assessment of what is or what is not a suitable outfit, but they are not totally reliable or accurate. For definitive accurate details there's no way round weighing you own car to establish its kerbweight and using the data taken from the vehicle's VIN plate for all other weight information.

 

[its_a_twiglethotmail.com]

Right trying to get head around this.

We have a Spacewagon, and are after a new van. We are thinking that we will get a van with the empty weight plus equipment of around 1450kg. This will be in the 90%ish range.

/if the van has a max weight of 1600kg say, but we don't use it, then surely this will be OK? We are going to upgrade to a heavier car next year or so.

Any thoughts as we would really like a twin axle, but obviously heavier.

 

[RogerL]

Only experienced caravanners who've weighed every single item in their UK caravan, or had it weighed, can legitimately claim not to use their full payload - for everyone else it's safer to assume that any caravan will be running at MTPLM.

Exceptions are certain continental brands that have optional plating limits to allow much higher payloads than UK caravans.

 

[its_a_twiglethotmail.com]

We will be in the legal limit of the car towing with the max payload, but would prefer the van at 90 rather than 100% of the outfit.

I suppose we are weighing up if we should go heavy for a year, and then get a 4x4 when we have saved again.

Towing is no problem, we have now done it fir about 5 or 6 years, and not had a nasty situation as we are careful with nose weights and how we load/tow the van.

 

[Lutz]

You say you are going to tow with a Spacewagon, but you don't mention what year or whether it is a manual or automatic. According to the data I have available, the maximum permissible towload of a post-2002 manual Spacewagon is 1400kg. All other Spacewagons are rated at 1600kg. It is therefore important to check whether you would be within the manufacturer's specs, regardless of what the weight ratio is.

 

[Lutz]

You say you are going to tow with a Spacewagon, but you don't mention what year or whether it is a manual or automatic. According to the data I have available, the maximum permissible towload of a post-2002 manual Spacewagon is 1400kg. All other Spacewagons are rated at 1600kg. It is therefore important to check whether you would be within the manufacturer's specs, regardless of what the weight ratio is.

The 1400kg limit applies to a post-2002 manual 2 litre only, not the 2.4, which also has the 1600kg limit.

 

[its_a_twiglethotmail.com]

Yes, it is a '99 auto and it states that it is a 1600kg weight that it can tow.

I am going to look under the bonnet today as apparently there should be a plate that says the max tow weight as well as the max combined car loaded and tow weight that it can tow.