Cris my opinion is that at 55 you actually cause less of an obstruction on the motorways than 60. The fact of the matter is that you can maintain progress with the HGV,s you don't have to keep pulling out into the middle lane every few mile to overtake them. I cover high mileage like yourself well in excess of 50k each year on business and pleasure and driving solo the frustration is always vehicles slower than the national speed limit constantly moving in and out of the inside lane to overtake.
I really don't see where the big problem is. I don't like going on about traffic conditions etc. in Germany but considering there is no general speed limit for cars and trucks are governed to the same 90km/h as in the UK, the traffic seems to me to flow reasonably. Maybe drivers use their rear view mirror more to watch out for cars coming up from behind at 200? I usually also drive at a constant speed of around 55mph but when overtaking a truck doing 56-57, I'll accelerate to 65 or so just for the overtaking manoeuvre to clear the way again for following faster traffic.
Apart from high mileage and caravanning a lot of our mileage involves towing.
In this day and age when the conditions are there to travel at 60 mph on a motorway to be holding the view that 55mph is some magic safety measure is a nonsense.
There are times to vary your speed, but we see far to many driving cars very capable of towing at well above the limits traveling at well under 60 and a lot of the time they are a menace and potential danger to other road users and them selves.
In this day and age when the conditions are there to travel at 60 mph on a motorway to be holding the view that 55mph is some magic safety measure is a nonsense.
There are times to vary your speed, but we see far to many driving cars very capable of towing at well above the limits traveling at well under 60 and a lot of the time they are a menace and potential danger to other road users and them selves.
Cris what a load of tosh! What's your problem boredom? Perhaps you need to get a hobby in stead of trawling these forums nit picking at other peoples postings.
Suitable outfit(woops Rig, we must pretend that we are big truckers) yes I think so, 2007 Bailey Senator being dragged by a 2006 Volvo XC90 that is more than capable of exceeding the national speed limit both solo and towing
How an earth do I force large trucks out in to lane number 2(sorry middle lane) They choose to overtake me of there own free will, be it only very marginally quicker than the speed I am travelling at, but this is where the "Brainer bit comes in" and also good driving practice that helps with traffic flow, is to allow the overtaking vehicle to pull back in to lane 1 when he has completed his overtaking manoeuvre, i.e. not pace him at the same speed but to slightly reduce yours.
Can't answer the France one as I do not know what bust times are?
Has nothing to do with single lane carriageways with limited overtaking opportunities!
Really, tell that one to Lincolnshire county council who has the highest proportion of single carriageway roads in the UK and would you believe it the highest accident rate.
Cast your mind back a few months ago A52 near Grantham, lorry driver killed and 7 passengers killed in a mini bus, and guess what, he was trying to overtake on a single carriageway. That is why they will be spending billions in the future duelling the A46, but in the mean time there single carriageway roads will remain designated red routes due to there high volume of accidents.(RTI)
"If you take note of your average speed, consider that your average would be better if some truck was not forcing his way into the middle lane to pass a caravan causing tail lights to repeat down miles of motorways until three lanes is at stand still."
Sorry but that does not make sense at all.
Put it this way I live in the midlands' and 20 years ago I could travel to London in around three hours, the same journey now can take more than double that, why? Simple and it has nothing to do with caravans especially at this time of year, because the volume of traffic has more than doubled. Why else do you think they are proposing more toll roads? Or pay as you drive? Simple because our roads are at gridlock and they are becoming worse by the day as reflected in my average 37mph.
You will also find that the driver who has lost control of his outfit(done it again , rig) on a motorway through excessive speed will cause far more hold ups due to the motorway being closed for hours on end as the emergency services clear up the remains, and cart the survivors' off to hospital than a responsible aware driver will proceeding at slightly below the recommended speed limit, as apposed to the driver who with his big rig that never gets out of control because it is a close coupled T/A that always behaves implacably over it's single axle counterpart, there the ones who drive along looking at the dickie birds and cows in the fields, believing that they are invincible and know better than anyone else.
And now you can see why I recommend driver training for all, with a compulsory test.
Have you ever witnessed an Army convoy on the motorway? Normally all traveling in lane 1 at around 45mph, does that cause massive hold ups? NO.
National speed limit for an HGV on a Motorway is 60mph, European directive states that we have to fit those vehicles with a limiter set at 56mph, so they lost almost 5mph over night, was that catastrophic? No just like peak times on the M25 when they impose restricted speed limits that have proven to increase traffic flow.
And if my 55mph is impeding traffic flow why do I spend a lot of time in lane 2 overtaking? And lets not forget the fuel saving, mine is more efficient at 55 than at 60mph, and we all have to do our bit to help combat the greenhouse effect.
And finally no I am not anti HGV, as I have been in the business for almost 35years and now semi retired with my son taking over the reigns.
Allan.
Suitable outfit(woops Rig, we must pretend that we are big truckers) yes I think so, 2007 Bailey Senator being dragged by a 2006 Volvo XC90 that is more than capable of exceeding the national speed limit both solo and towing
How an earth do I force large trucks out in to lane number 2(sorry middle lane) They choose to overtake me of there own free will, be it only very marginally quicker than the speed I am travelling at, but this is where the "Brainer bit comes in" and also good driving practice that helps with traffic flow, is to allow the overtaking vehicle to pull back in to lane 1 when he has completed his overtaking manoeuvre, i.e. not pace him at the same speed but to slightly reduce yours.
Can't answer the France one as I do not know what bust times are?
Has nothing to do with single lane carriageways with limited overtaking opportunities!
Really, tell that one to Lincolnshire county council who has the highest proportion of single carriageway roads in the UK and would you believe it the highest accident rate.
Cast your mind back a few months ago A52 near Grantham, lorry driver killed and 7 passengers killed in a mini bus, and guess what, he was trying to overtake on a single carriageway. That is why they will be spending billions in the future duelling the A46, but in the mean time there single carriageway roads will remain designated red routes due to there high volume of accidents.(RTI)
"If you take note of your average speed, consider that your average would be better if some truck was not forcing his way into the middle lane to pass a caravan causing tail lights to repeat down miles of motorways until three lanes is at stand still."
Sorry but that does not make sense at all.
Put it this way I live in the midlands' and 20 years ago I could travel to London in around three hours, the same journey now can take more than double that, why? Simple and it has nothing to do with caravans especially at this time of year, because the volume of traffic has more than doubled. Why else do you think they are proposing more toll roads? Or pay as you drive? Simple because our roads are at gridlock and they are becoming worse by the day as reflected in my average 37mph.
You will also find that the driver who has lost control of his outfit(done it again , rig) on a motorway through excessive speed will cause far more hold ups due to the motorway being closed for hours on end as the emergency services clear up the remains, and cart the survivors' off to hospital than a responsible aware driver will proceeding at slightly below the recommended speed limit, as apposed to the driver who with his big rig that never gets out of control because it is a close coupled T/A that always behaves implacably over it's single axle counterpart, there the ones who drive along looking at the dickie birds and cows in the fields, believing that they are invincible and know better than anyone else.
And now you can see why I recommend driver training for all, with a compulsory test.
Have you ever witnessed an Army convoy on the motorway? Normally all traveling in lane 1 at around 45mph, does that cause massive hold ups? NO.
National speed limit for an HGV on a Motorway is 60mph, European directive states that we have to fit those vehicles with a limiter set at 56mph, so they lost almost 5mph over night, was that catastrophic? No just like peak times on the M25 when they impose restricted speed limits that have proven to increase traffic flow.
And if my 55mph is impeding traffic flow why do I spend a lot of time in lane 2 overtaking? And lets not forget the fuel saving, mine is more efficient at 55 than at 60mph, and we all have to do our bit to help combat the greenhouse effect.
And finally no I am not anti HGV, as I have been in the business for almost 35years and now semi retired with my son taking over the reigns.
Allan.
Seem like I've hit a raw nerve, we've use the term rig in our work to relate to vehicle and towed trailer for years. Nothing to do with Yorkie Bars and "pretend Truckers".. Just easier then putting car and caravan/trailer combination every time!
I have plenty of hobbies but as I'm still awaiting further surgery due to a set back I'm on office duty sat all day at two PC's, Phones and fax pulling is some business as I have very limited mobility and it gives me something to do.
So sorry for the delay in replying, some of us still have work to do even if we don't need to.
The problems on our roads are due to under funding as Government chooses to spend road generated money else where and Road Charging is just another tax to bleed us dry. Much of todays UK congestion is designed to be that way.
If your tow car is the very capable Volvo yet you do not feel at ease at 60mph what is wrong? If you are kindly slowing to let the trucks in that pass you, you are reducing average speeds for you and many others at times.
I should have mede the tail light comment clearer!
I'm sure you are aware of the motorway three lane stand still situations that are just the result of miles of tail lights backing the traffic up. You know the sittuation where you are at stand still or crawlling at 5mph expecting to see an accident when in fact a real big problem does not exist. It's people towing at 55 and the like that slows the traffic and get the wave of tail lights going that ends up with a stand still sittuation for miles behind them the same as the "Rubber Neckers" who brake to look at others disasters.
As for the M25 speed restrictions that were a failure but made to look good on paper! The proven success on the M25 is the extra lanes they have build around Heathrow! The M25 speed limite were set at speeds that motorists only dreamt of and caused chaos.
I never once suggested that anyone tows on the limit at all times, but if you are not making the best safe speed and progress you are a potential manace and as likely to cause an accident as someone speeding.
As for the greenhouse comment, what rubbish.
You comment about twice as much traffic on much the same raod network as 20 years ago! HM's Government have done exactly what with all that extra revenue whilst they have ignored their own pollution data and now want us to pick up an even bigger bill by selling us a guilt trip.
I have plenty of hobbies but as I'm still awaiting further surgery due to a set back I'm on office duty sat all day at two PC's, Phones and fax pulling is some business as I have very limited mobility and it gives me something to do.
So sorry for the delay in replying, some of us still have work to do even if we don't need to.
The problems on our roads are due to under funding as Government chooses to spend road generated money else where and Road Charging is just another tax to bleed us dry. Much of todays UK congestion is designed to be that way.
If your tow car is the very capable Volvo yet you do not feel at ease at 60mph what is wrong? If you are kindly slowing to let the trucks in that pass you, you are reducing average speeds for you and many others at times.
I should have mede the tail light comment clearer!
I'm sure you are aware of the motorway three lane stand still situations that are just the result of miles of tail lights backing the traffic up. You know the sittuation where you are at stand still or crawlling at 5mph expecting to see an accident when in fact a real big problem does not exist. It's people towing at 55 and the like that slows the traffic and get the wave of tail lights going that ends up with a stand still sittuation for miles behind them the same as the "Rubber Neckers" who brake to look at others disasters.
As for the M25 speed restrictions that were a failure but made to look good on paper! The proven success on the M25 is the extra lanes they have build around Heathrow! The M25 speed limite were set at speeds that motorists only dreamt of and caused chaos.
I never once suggested that anyone tows on the limit at all times, but if you are not making the best safe speed and progress you are a potential manace and as likely to cause an accident as someone speeding.
As for the greenhouse comment, what rubbish.
You comment about twice as much traffic on much the same raod network as 20 years ago! HM's Government have done exactly what with all that extra revenue whilst they have ignored their own pollution data and now want us to pick up an even bigger bill by selling us a guilt trip.
You comment about twice as much traffic on much the same raod network as 20 years ago! HM's Government have done exactly what with all that extra revenue whilst they have ignored their own pollution data and now want us to pick up an even bigger bill by selling us a guilt trip.
"France is a slightly different case with lower traffic flow, but with two lane Motorways"
Don't suppose three times the land mass compared to ours has anything to do with it?
I could understand your resentment to my slight reduction in maximum possible speed, had I have said that I travel at a maximum 35/40mph on a single carriageway, now that causes real congestion and anger amongst other drivers and is down right dangerous.
As I have said before a caravan has to be one of the most unstable and unpredictable combinations on our roads to day by its very nature of design, why else stabilizers? Get yourself behind the wheel of a 44 ton artic and feel the difference, not affected by other vehicles overtaking you. Slight puff of wind does not blow you of course, and above all they are stable as they are doing the job they were intended and designed for, so until they greatly improve the stability of the sea saw caravan design I will keep my speed slightly down from the 60mph maximum thank you.
From a truckers point of view, who have a job to do with some very tight time restraints they would much prefer us caravaners to keep out of there way @ 55mph than keep playing catch up when they can exceed 60mph on a down hill stretch of motorway. (not legal I know) the most important factor in keeping traffic moving is in the ability to maintain a constant speed, whether it be 55 or 60 mph, as I said before up hill or down dale.
"Motorways are our main motoring arteries and we all need our arteries to flow freely and that was one reason why the towing limit was raised to 60."
Why did they then reduce the maximum mph of a psv down to 60mph? And took the same measure with goods vehicles that range from 3.5 / 7.5 tons from January of this year? Seems a bit counter active doesn't it, and at the same time prohibit there use of the out side lane.
Just remember we are a very small island whose road infrastructure is at almost breaking point, and you can blame who you like but it is a fact that is not going to go away, and increased speed is certainly not going to reduce your traveling time, Or make it any safer, wake up smell the coffee and excerpt your free time on real important caravanning issues of which you will find plenty on these forums instead of arguing the point over a slight reduction of peoples mph.
Ask yourself this question: would there be less frustration, less hold ups, better traffic flow, if all types of vehicles were allowed to travel at the national speed limit of 70mph?
"France is a slightly different case with lower traffic flow, but with two lane Motorways"
Don't suppose three times the land mass compared to ours has anything to do with it?
I could understand your resentment to my slight reduction in maximum possible speed, had I have said that I travel at a maximum 35/40mph on a single carriageway, now that causes real congestion and anger amongst other drivers and is down right dangerous.
As I have said before a caravan has to be one of the most unstable and unpredictable combinations on our roads to day by its very nature of design, why else stabilizers? Get yourself behind the wheel of a 44 ton artic and feel the difference, not affected by other vehicles overtaking you. Slight puff of wind does not blow you of course, and above all they are stable as they are doing the job they were intended and designed for, so until they greatly improve the stability of the sea saw caravan design I will keep my speed slightly down from the 60mph maximum thank you.
From a truckers point of view, who have a job to do with some very tight time restraints they would much prefer us caravaners to keep out of there way @ 55mph than keep playing catch up when they can exceed 60mph on a down hill stretch of motorway. (not legal I know) the most important factor in keeping traffic moving is in the ability to maintain a constant speed, whether it be 55 or 60 mph, as I said before up hill or down dale.
"Motorways are our main motoring arteries and we all need our arteries to flow freely and that was one reason why the towing limit was raised to 60."
Why did they then reduce the maximum mph of a psv down to 60mph? And took the same measure with goods vehicles that range from 3.5 / 7.5 tons from January of this year? Seems a bit counter active doesn't it, and at the same time prohibit there use of the out side lane.
Just remember we are a very small island whose road infrastructure is at almost breaking point, and you can blame who you like but it is a fact that is not going to go away, and increased speed is certainly not going to reduce your traveling time, Or make it any safer, wake up smell the coffee and excerpt your free time on real important caravanning issues of which you will find plenty on these forums instead of arguing the point over a slight reduction of peoples mph.
Ask yourself this question: would there be less frustration, less hold ups, better traffic flow, if all types of vehicles were allowed to travel at the national speed limit of 70mph?
Considering the UK has a higher speed limit for caravans than most European countries (France and Belgium are exceptions) and caravans don't seem to be the big hold-up elsewehere, I can't understand what all the fuss is about.
The only reason that the roads infrastructure in the UK is very full is down to bad road design under funding and not enough roads being built, nothing to do with land mass.
You make assumptions about my driving experience that are completely wrong as well Allan.
If you honestly believe that your Volvo towing your Senator is a possible danger and potentially very unstable at 60mph compared to 55mph I believe you have some serious issues with how the "outfit" is loaded or set-up or you should not be on the road quite frankly with that "outfit".
As I've posted before, I expect the unexpected to happen when things go wrong that's partially why I can't walk to well at present quite frankly!
And I've also said that speed limit is not a blanket command meaning that you do not go slower at times for a wide variety of reasons.
But the idea that somebody drives on a still air, sunny, near empty Motorway at 55 rather than 60 for some stability issue or fear with a modern tow car and caravan is a nonsense.
Re
"Slight puff of wind does not blow you of course"
If that is what you are experiencing whilst towing, what are you doing wrong?
There can be issues re side drafts from larger vehicles and side winds etc, but a "puff of wind" that you seem to be relating to life threatening danger with a 5mpg speed difference sound like something is not right.
You make assumptions about my driving experience that are completely wrong as well Allan.
If you honestly believe that your Volvo towing your Senator is a possible danger and potentially very unstable at 60mph compared to 55mph I believe you have some serious issues with how the "outfit" is loaded or set-up or you should not be on the road quite frankly with that "outfit".
As I've posted before, I expect the unexpected to happen when things go wrong that's partially why I can't walk to well at present quite frankly!
And I've also said that speed limit is not a blanket command meaning that you do not go slower at times for a wide variety of reasons.
But the idea that somebody drives on a still air, sunny, near empty Motorway at 55 rather than 60 for some stability issue or fear with a modern tow car and caravan is a nonsense.
Re
"Slight puff of wind does not blow you of course"
If that is what you are experiencing whilst towing, what are you doing wrong?
There can be issues re side drafts from larger vehicles and side winds etc, but a "puff of wind" that you seem to be relating to life threatening danger with a 5mpg speed difference sound like something is not right.
"The only reason that the roads infrastructure in the UK is very full is down to bad road design under funding and not enough roads being built, nothing to do with land mass."
Really! And they have about the same populous which = about the same amount of traffic in about three
times the amount of room to put it in France= less congestion, but the fact still remains we have very congested roads.
"As I've posted before, I expect the unexpected to happen when things go wrong that's partially why I can't walk to well at present quite frankly!"
What's that got to do with anything? What bearing does that have on the matter? Talk about riddles!
Have I said that my Volvo towing my Senator is a possible danger? No
What I did say was that caravans are very unstable/ unpredictable in there road manners (bit like yours on here) remember there first prime use is for holidays, bit different to a truck.
"But the idea that somebody drives on a still air, sunny, near empty Motorway at 55 rather than 60 for some stability issue or fear with a modern tow car and caravan is a nonsense"
Bit of a contradiction there Cris! If that's the case who am I holding up?.
Your whole attitude is quite easily summed up with your referral to a car/caravan combination as a"RIG" similar to the attitude of some of the 4x4 drivers we see driving along the motorway at 70mph with his tandem axle caravan in tow at 70mph arm firmly stuck out of the open window, feeling quite safe and secure with his "RIG" as he mixes it with the big boys. No offence intended for the majority of 4x4 drivers.
Just listening to the radio and the M1 is at a total standstill from J26 through to J29, north bound, I traveled that route earlier today and not a single caravan to be seen, and so what is causing that then Cris? Aghh silly me its school half term and its all those caravans that have suddenly descended on the motorway traveling @ 55 mph! ( if that's the case what caused it last Friday?)
And I do not have to make any assumptions for your driving experience, you portray them quite well without any input from me, just read back through some of your postings, single axle t/a springs to mind for one.
Sorry Cris it does not wash, because your sat at home and bored do not come on here and vent your spleen on a problem that does not exist, and brings mine and most other resposable caravanners road manners in to disrepute.
The wife has just walked in & sh e is still recovering from fits of laughter over your comment:" nothing to do with land mass"
Really! And they have about the same populous which = about the same amount of traffic in about three
times the amount of room to put it in France= less congestion, but the fact still remains we have very congested roads.
"As I've posted before, I expect the unexpected to happen when things go wrong that's partially why I can't walk to well at present quite frankly!"
What's that got to do with anything? What bearing does that have on the matter? Talk about riddles!
Have I said that my Volvo towing my Senator is a possible danger? No
What I did say was that caravans are very unstable/ unpredictable in there road manners (bit like yours on here) remember there first prime use is for holidays, bit different to a truck.
"But the idea that somebody drives on a still air, sunny, near empty Motorway at 55 rather than 60 for some stability issue or fear with a modern tow car and caravan is a nonsense"
Bit of a contradiction there Cris! If that's the case who am I holding up?.
Your whole attitude is quite easily summed up with your referral to a car/caravan combination as a"RIG" similar to the attitude of some of the 4x4 drivers we see driving along the motorway at 70mph with his tandem axle caravan in tow at 70mph arm firmly stuck out of the open window, feeling quite safe and secure with his "RIG" as he mixes it with the big boys. No offence intended for the majority of 4x4 drivers.
Just listening to the radio and the M1 is at a total standstill from J26 through to J29, north bound, I traveled that route earlier today and not a single caravan to be seen, and so what is causing that then Cris? Aghh silly me its school half term and its all those caravans that have suddenly descended on the motorway traveling @ 55 mph! ( if that's the case what caused it last Friday?)
And I do not have to make any assumptions for your driving experience, you portray them quite well without any input from me, just read back through some of your postings, single axle t/a springs to mind for one.
Sorry Cris it does not wash, because your sat at home and bored do not come on here and vent your spleen on a problem that does not exist, and brings mine and most other resposable caravanners road manners in to disrepute.
The wife has just walked in & sh e is still recovering from fits of laughter over your comment:" nothing to do with land mass"
May be you have missed the point that even Government agency reports have said that there is plenty more than enough countyside and land available in the UK to support far more roads.
Population density differences between here and France make for many of the road differences. Being that we have less land is not the reason that we do not have enough roads!
Caravans can have stability issues, but " caravans are very unstable/ unpredictable in there road manners ".
"Are" and "Can Be" unstable, are two different things!
Apart from "rig" being a work term we use, we work with Americans in Europe for a few weeks each year. They do not drive trucks or lorries but the term "rig" for their vehicles and trailers is common parlance as it is with our work vehicles, trailers and the kit we carry. When we are on site we "rig" a job and when the job is finished we often go back and "de rig" or assist clients in the "de rig" along with others on sites where we work.
You seem to have a fixation with trucks and 4 x 4's. We've never towed our own caravans with 4 x 4's yet and never felt the need to have an arm out the window of any car. Our only interest is start to destination and quick clean and efficient motoring with as little trouble to us and others as possible.
As for the M1 it's just as well you were not towing on it with Friday's density of traffic, when it does flow the last thing other drivers need is a nervous 55mph caravanner if the road conditions would allow 60mph.
Surely you were able to see that the "clear road" comment is by way of a generalisation re "good" conditions.
And Allan, Iv'e actually been sat in my office since 6am this morning whilst you were out playing with the traffic as my wife drops me off as she goes to work and collects me later at around 7pm tonight.
Car use in France per head of population is less than the UK and according to recent figures France still has over 2 million less cars than the UK as has been the case for many years. That also translates into far less revenue to the French Government both directly from fuel taxes and road taxes and from the benefits the UK has through employment in many sectors that rides off the backs of UK motorists.
To suggest that 55mph driving makes you any more responsible than a driver that makes full use of what is available to them when suitable is again nonsense and shows a narrow minded veiw re towing and road safety.
I'm also just as vocal re dawdling Car, Van, Truck, Motorhome or any other driver, caravanners take enough flak without some dawdling along so I'm not against your actions alone.
I would also point out that Army convoys often used the M3 and probably still do and are a menace, some years ago I understood that such movements from Pirbright and Aldershot and other south east bases were planned out side rush hour and busy times whenever possible due to the slow speed and trouble they caused with traffic!
Can I take it that your wife tows your caravan and make her own driving judgement like mine who is normaly sat on 60 with me happy in the passenger seat very often as "Macho Man has to tow" is not part of my persona.
Population density differences between here and France make for many of the road differences. Being that we have less land is not the reason that we do not have enough roads!
Caravans can have stability issues, but " caravans are very unstable/ unpredictable in there road manners ".
"Are" and "Can Be" unstable, are two different things!
Apart from "rig" being a work term we use, we work with Americans in Europe for a few weeks each year. They do not drive trucks or lorries but the term "rig" for their vehicles and trailers is common parlance as it is with our work vehicles, trailers and the kit we carry. When we are on site we "rig" a job and when the job is finished we often go back and "de rig" or assist clients in the "de rig" along with others on sites where we work.
You seem to have a fixation with trucks and 4 x 4's. We've never towed our own caravans with 4 x 4's yet and never felt the need to have an arm out the window of any car. Our only interest is start to destination and quick clean and efficient motoring with as little trouble to us and others as possible.
As for the M1 it's just as well you were not towing on it with Friday's density of traffic, when it does flow the last thing other drivers need is a nervous 55mph caravanner if the road conditions would allow 60mph.
Surely you were able to see that the "clear road" comment is by way of a generalisation re "good" conditions.
And Allan, Iv'e actually been sat in my office since 6am this morning whilst you were out playing with the traffic as my wife drops me off as she goes to work and collects me later at around 7pm tonight.
Car use in France per head of population is less than the UK and according to recent figures France still has over 2 million less cars than the UK as has been the case for many years. That also translates into far less revenue to the French Government both directly from fuel taxes and road taxes and from the benefits the UK has through employment in many sectors that rides off the backs of UK motorists.
To suggest that 55mph driving makes you any more responsible than a driver that makes full use of what is available to them when suitable is again nonsense and shows a narrow minded veiw re towing and road safety.
I'm also just as vocal re dawdling Car, Van, Truck, Motorhome or any other driver, caravanners take enough flak without some dawdling along so I'm not against your actions alone.
I would also point out that Army convoys often used the M3 and probably still do and are a menace, some years ago I understood that such movements from Pirbright and Aldershot and other south east bases were planned out side rush hour and busy times whenever possible due to the slow speed and trouble they caused with traffic!
Can I take it that your wife tows your caravan and make her own driving judgement like mine who is normaly sat on 60 with me happy in the passenger seat very often as "Macho Man has to tow" is not part of my persona.
"France is a slightly different case with lower traffic flow, but with two lane Motorways"
You do not make a lot of sense Cris read back through your posts and it is self explanatory.
And while you are reading back I said that I limit my speed to around 55, read it again around 55 no hard and fast rule that I rigidly stick to 55.
So when this truck pulls out in to lane 2 to overtake me, please explain what the difference is between me having a caravan in tow, or another lorry he is over taking, or a motorbike, or a motor home or any other type of vehicle (RIG Sorry) because to be quite honest you are not making a lot of sense over 1 or 2 mph and the type of vehicle that is being overtaken.
I have some HGV's who limiters cut in at around 53mph others at 58 differential of 5mph, and to there performance at the end of the week it does not make a jot of difference.
As I said before you're just looking for an argument, and to be quite honest I really don't know why I am wasting my time in replying to you, and all I can say is I hope your bombastic attitude is not carried over when you get behind the wheel.
You do not make a lot of sense Cris read back through your posts and it is self explanatory.
And while you are reading back I said that I limit my speed to around 55, read it again around 55 no hard and fast rule that I rigidly stick to 55.
So when this truck pulls out in to lane 2 to overtake me, please explain what the difference is between me having a caravan in tow, or another lorry he is over taking, or a motorbike, or a motor home or any other type of vehicle (RIG Sorry) because to be quite honest you are not making a lot of sense over 1 or 2 mph and the type of vehicle that is being overtaken.
I have some HGV's who limiters cut in at around 53mph others at 58 differential of 5mph, and to there performance at the end of the week it does not make a jot of difference.
As I said before you're just looking for an argument, and to be quite honest I really don't know why I am wasting my time in replying to you, and all I can say is I hope your bombastic attitude is not carried over when you get behind the wheel.
Well I have a home to go to soon.
Why have lorry out overtaking you when you can travel at a speed that lets him/her travel in the same lane, especially with closing speed differential on French roads.
As you now point out that your speed is limited by you to "around 55mph. 57 is only a tad under 60 so what's the problem safety wise with that "puff of wind" between 57 and 60.
With your trucking back ground maybe you can confirm that lorry speedo's due to tacho's can be some what more accurate than your Volvo that will read 2 or 3 mph under actual speed.
So you are likely to be somewhat under lorry speeds and either be slowing the progress or having a lot trundling past you.
I'm off home for dinner now. It's fish curry and chilli cakes tonight, so I can't hang around.
Why have lorry out overtaking you when you can travel at a speed that lets him/her travel in the same lane, especially with closing speed differential on French roads.
As you now point out that your speed is limited by you to "around 55mph. 57 is only a tad under 60 so what's the problem safety wise with that "puff of wind" between 57 and 60.
With your trucking back ground maybe you can confirm that lorry speedo's due to tacho's can be some what more accurate than your Volvo that will read 2 or 3 mph under actual speed.
So you are likely to be somewhat under lorry speeds and either be slowing the progress or having a lot trundling past you.
I'm off home for dinner now. It's fish curry and chilli cakes tonight, so I can't hang around.
I have towed in Germany and Holland a few times, and I am limited to 50mph there. Yes it's slower, but it definitely feels safer and more relaxing and it significantly reduces fuel consumption. I didn't notice long queues behind me, or frustrated drivers overtaking me.
Given the relatively low number of caravans on the road, to say that serious traffic problems could be caused by someone driving at 55mpg instead of 60mph simply isn't credible. It's a free country, and there is no absolute minimum speed limit on motorways. Surely more problems would be caused by someone striving to drive at the limit at all times, and not necessarily taking account of the prevailing conditions.
I'm not being personal Cris, but your history of motoring accidents could suggest that you have a problem with speed. I don't see any problem with Allan driving a little more slowly - he has said that he doesn't religiously stick to 55 mph. In fact, varying your speed a little on a long journey is a good way of maintaining alertness.
Finally, some words from the good book (the Highway Code)
124: Adapt your driving to the appropriate type and condition of road you are on. In particular do not treat speed limits as a target. It is often not appropriate or safe to drive at the maximum speed limit.
234: (On a motorway) When you can see well ahead and the road conditions are good, you should drive at a steady cruising speed which you and your vehicle can handle safely and is within the speed limit.
It looks like Allan has read the book.
Given the relatively low number of caravans on the road, to say that serious traffic problems could be caused by someone driving at 55mpg instead of 60mph simply isn't credible. It's a free country, and there is no absolute minimum speed limit on motorways. Surely more problems would be caused by someone striving to drive at the limit at all times, and not necessarily taking account of the prevailing conditions.
I'm not being personal Cris, but your history of motoring accidents could suggest that you have a problem with speed. I don't see any problem with Allan driving a little more slowly - he has said that he doesn't religiously stick to 55 mph. In fact, varying your speed a little on a long journey is a good way of maintaining alertness.
Finally, some words from the good book (the Highway Code)
124: Adapt your driving to the appropriate type and condition of road you are on. In particular do not treat speed limits as a target. It is often not appropriate or safe to drive at the maximum speed limit.
234: (On a motorway) When you can see well ahead and the road conditions are good, you should drive at a steady cruising speed which you and your vehicle can handle safely and is within the speed limit.
It looks like Allan has read the book.
hello folks,im not really that bothered about what speed people tow at,because have had times where im far from perfect,i put my hands up,but i also travel of a night mainly due to less traffic.but i know abroad the limit say in France ,is higher.so i think the vans must be capable of it.Does travelling at 55 not cause a problem to HGVs with the limiters set at 56 because it would take ages for them to pass you in the 2nd lane,it wouldnt be to bad for the ones set at 54 though .stick it on cruise at 75mph -rest one eye!joke.
Mike P
cris is cooking dinner at present.
Could you please clarify your remark on cris's accident record!
"but your history of motoring accidents could suggest that you have a problem with speed"
Maureen
cris is cooking dinner at present.
Could you please clarify your remark on cris's accident record!
"but your history of motoring accidents could suggest that you have a problem with speed"
Maureen
I can't be bothered to trawl through old posts, but Cris has referred to car and motorbike accidents on more than one occasion. This is not the "usual" record of someone who drives and "expects the unexpected to happen".
I didn't want it to look like I was being personal, but I felt that the comment was valid and in context. I have no idea of statistics, but I suspect that most incidents are caused by speed and driver error. When I was a typical teenager with a new licence, I caused a few problems and narrowly avoided many others. Now that I am on old fart (40!) I have slowed down in many ways and I feel (hope) that I am less likely to cause an incident.
I didn't want it to look like I was being personal, but I felt that the comment was valid and in context. I have no idea of statistics, but I suspect that most incidents are caused by speed and driver error. When I was a typical teenager with a new licence, I caused a few problems and narrowly avoided many others. Now that I am on old fart (40!) I have slowed down in many ways and I feel (hope) that I am less likely to cause an incident.
Seth, the caravan industry bases all its technical designs on maximum speed of 60mph. No caravan is really designed to be used safely at the French speed limit. That is why I think it is such a farce. German insurance companies warn policyholders that coverage will be lost if it can be proved an outfit was doing over 100km/h at the time of an accident, whether or not speeding was the actual cause.
Having read through this thread, and seeing the different views being put forward, it is starting to deteriorate into more of a personal theme, which should be avoided.
Before the thread become even more personal, lets not go there and spoil whathas been a good exchange of views.
As for cris' driving record, this is an inappropriate area to digress into and for those who do not know what happened to cris, sorry, but that incident is over and cris is still doing well withhis recovery.
Suffice to say the incident was NOT of his making.
We all have our respective thoughts and ideas on what speeds are safe for us to drive at, towing or not, please lets just accept that not everyone will drive to the legal limit for whatever reason they decide, its that simple.
Before the thread become even more personal, lets not go there and spoil whathas been a good exchange of views.
As for cris' driving record, this is an inappropriate area to digress into and for those who do not know what happened to cris, sorry, but that incident is over and cris is still doing well withhis recovery.
Suffice to say the incident was NOT of his making.
We all have our respective thoughts and ideas on what speeds are safe for us to drive at, towing or not, please lets just accept that not everyone will drive to the legal limit for whatever reason they decide, its that simple.
Yes isn't it a shame that good theads end up as personnal abuse.
Usually from the same member.
But maybe thats not of his making.
Brian (",)
Usually from the same member.
But maybe thats not of his making.
Brian (",)
Thank's Mod 2.
And just to add, that I still have a clean accident blame free road and track record with any vehicle and still as always carry full no claims bonus!And that's after over 35 years on the road! And a lot more than average mileage.
As for towing speeds, we have an old Bailey manual that states on Page 66 in "Notes" under the Senator model line ups details.
"The maximum towing speed at Maximum weight for all models is 81mph (130kh/h)"
I doubt that Bailey would have put that on paper with out there being some safety leeway above that speed, but nor that they would advise that as a general towing speed!
And just to add, that I still have a clean accident blame free road and track record with any vehicle and still as always carry full no claims bonus!And that's after over 35 years on the road! And a lot more than average mileage.
As for towing speeds, we have an old Bailey manual that states on Page 66 in "Notes" under the Senator model line ups details.
"The maximum towing speed at Maximum weight for all models is 81mph (130kh/h)"
I doubt that Bailey would have put that on paper with out there being some safety leeway above that speed, but nor that they would advise that as a general towing speed!
"We all have our respective thoughts and ideas on what speeds are safe for us to drive at, towing or not, please lets just accept that not everyone will drive to the legal limit for whatever reason they decide, its that simple. "
Thank's Mod 2.
And just to add, that I still have a clean accident blame free road and track record with any vehicle and still as always carry full no claims bonus!And that's after over 35 years on the road! And a lot more than average mileage.
As for towing speeds, we have an old Bailey manual that states on Page 66 in "Notes" under the Senator model line ups details.
"The maximum towing speed at Maximum weight for all models is 81mph (130kh/h)"
I doubt that Bailey would have put that on paper with out there being some safety leeway above that speed, but nor that they would advise that as a general towing speed!
Just read what the moderator has put Cris "it's that simple" end of debate. But you still have to keep going on.(Bailey handbook) As I said I don't think speed was the original debate here was it Cris? More of a totally uncalled for personal attack, from some one who wanted to have an unfounded argument. And I am just as much to blame as I should have totally ignored your remarks. Just take the advice of the moderator and put it to bed once and for all, its that simple.
Allan.
Thank's Mod 2.
And just to add, that I still have a clean accident blame free road and track record with any vehicle and still as always carry full no claims bonus!And that's after over 35 years on the road! And a lot more than average mileage.
As for towing speeds, we have an old Bailey manual that states on Page 66 in "Notes" under the Senator model line ups details.
"The maximum towing speed at Maximum weight for all models is 81mph (130kh/h)"
I doubt that Bailey would have put that on paper with out there being some safety leeway above that speed, but nor that they would advise that as a general towing speed!
Just read what the moderator has put Cris "it's that simple" end of debate. But you still have to keep going on.(Bailey handbook) As I said I don't think speed was the original debate here was it Cris? More of a totally uncalled for personal attack, from some one who wanted to have an unfounded argument. And I am just as much to blame as I should have totally ignored your remarks. Just take the advice of the moderator and put it to bed once and for all, its that simple.
Allan.
Mod 2 asked for "personal" to be kept from the thread!
No mention of "Thread Closed"
I just cleared up re that somebody here seemed to have the wrong idea about my driving record.
If you read Lutz post above the Mods, the Bailey manual reference was only ever related to that!
No mention of "Thread Closed"
I just cleared up re that somebody here seemed to have the wrong idea about my driving record.
If you read Lutz post above the Mods, the Bailey manual reference was only ever related to that!
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