Not sure if that is too pessimistic, It is simply impossible for most of us to have any real idea where cars will be by 2030 or even if the ban on new ICE vehicles will prove impossible in that timescale. I do think caravans will have to et lighter so major changes will be needed and possibly we will need to accept smaller caravans with less or different equipment. Poptops and folding models could make a comeback to get wind resistance down, even Alde heating may go in favour of weight reduction.
Not sure that recharging on site will be needed. To do this you would have to either replace the current power cables or add an extra one throughout the site at very considerable cost. Most sites have some parking for visitors but this is not big enough for a charging area. I suspect that like we do with ICE engines we will have to recharge off site. The supermarkets are already moving towards providing charging facilities and I suspect they will want to get their share of the money to be made there and it helps make them look green. Hopefully the time needed can be reduced to the point where this is feasible.
What will go will be the ability to power the fridge from the car when on the move. No matter what new innovations we get the power needed for a fridge is just too high to be used when travelling.
Not sure that recharging on site will be needed. To do this you would have to either replace the current power cables or add an extra one throughout the site at very considerable cost. Most sites have some parking for visitors but this is not big enough for a charging area. I suspect that like we do with ICE engines we will have to recharge off site. The supermarkets are already moving towards providing charging facilities and I suspect they will want to get their share of the money to be made there and it helps make them look green. Hopefully the time needed can be reduced to the point where this is feasible.
What will go will be the ability to power the fridge from the car when on the move. No matter what new innovations we get the power needed for a fridge is just too high to be used when travelling.
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New ICE hybrids can be sold up until 2035 so a 15 year time period will probably see major changes in vehicles and infrastructure. Just look what’s been achieved over the last few years with no real push. Tesla et al. Self driving autonomous systems, networked communications and infotainment, advanced safety systems, etc Plus rockets that come back to land themselves vertically. Advances in solar, wind and bio energy. Amazing changes that fifteen years ago would have been unthinkable. An exciting future, pity that as an engineer I’m not part of it, but I’ve had my moments too.
Enough of the doom and gloom please, already we have Audi e Tron 1800kg
Polestar1500kg
Tesla model 39k 900kg
Tesla model y soon to arrive 1600kg
Tesla model x 2100kg
Mercedeseqc 1800kg
Jag I pace 750kg
New prices are High and range will be hit BUT this is just the beginning and considering we have another 10-15years I can Only see choice and range increasing and prices falling plus charging infrastructure improving.
Polestar1500kg
Tesla model 39k 900kg
Tesla model y soon to arrive 1600kg
Tesla model x 2100kg
Mercedeseqc 1800kg
Jag I pace 750kg
New prices are High and range will be hit BUT this is just the beginning and considering we have another 10-15years I can Only see choice and range increasing and prices falling plus charging infrastructure improving.
Isn't the Tesla at the bottom of the list when it comes to customer satisfaction etc?
Yes but not really relevant-the point I was making is there is reason to be positive; there is already some choice and we're going to see this ramp up-no need to worry. I only know 1 tesla owner-no issues and delighted with his car-for a year now. Heck of a lot of tech in there-but I know batteries are lasting longer than they predicted too . All positive imo and you've got to remember Tesla are a brand new car firm-how many new entries beat Audi, Merc and Bmw hands down napping with range, price, pace etc. They may not be quite so reliable but the 3 series is getting great reviews. CAMC have already installed chargers at their site on the yorks coast-think others need to have a reality check-caravan and camping club have no plans as yet according to the mag-I can feel a letter coming on!
Tesla in 2015 we’re having problems but they turned that around and consistently in US websites they appear near, or at the top. Forbes ran a good article showing the 10 objectives of Tesla in achieving good Customer Satisfaction. It accepted that at times a customer may have a problem with the car. But the 10 objectives in customer care are intended to take the customer along as the problem is dealt with. A bit different to mainstream makes.
I'd have one tomorrow but Swmbo likes minis. The electric se is so far proving the most fun car I have ever driven,owned!
I've suggested it before, but it needs suggesting again but perhaps slightly differently, There has probably never been so much new diverse development going into EV's (and other forms of low emission power systems), and rather like the way computers have almost doubled their performance every 18months or so EV's are developing but perhaps not quite so quickly, but In 10 years time, they are likely to be much more capable than they are now - but they are also likely to be quite different, becasue I foresee that our driving needs are likely to change.
Fort that reason if you try to apply the capabilities of today's EV's to a scenario ten years ahead, you are almost bound to see problems. But the likely reality will be as problems arise, they will seed the development of solutions. So the problems you see now will no longer be problems.
This has always been the nature of technological developments.
When I was at school I never thought I'd be using electronic calculators, yet alone computers, I never thought we would be using mobile phones, Yet alone smart phones. Time changes what we expect, and I'll admit I'm rarely the first to take up a new technology, I prefer to let it get through its teething troubles, but almost inevitably I do end up having to join the penultimate advancement, often becasue it becomes necessary, but sometimes becasue it can be fun.
EV's are coming. They're not the total answer to world wide environmental issues, but they do help, and as more power is derived from low carbon sources, their eco credentials will improve further.
Fort that reason if you try to apply the capabilities of today's EV's to a scenario ten years ahead, you are almost bound to see problems. But the likely reality will be as problems arise, they will seed the development of solutions. So the problems you see now will no longer be problems.
This has always been the nature of technological developments.
When I was at school I never thought I'd be using electronic calculators, yet alone computers, I never thought we would be using mobile phones, Yet alone smart phones. Time changes what we expect, and I'll admit I'm rarely the first to take up a new technology, I prefer to let it get through its teething troubles, but almost inevitably I do end up having to join the penultimate advancement, often becasue it becomes necessary, but sometimes becasue it can be fun.
EV's are coming. They're not the total answer to world wide environmental issues, but they do help, and as more power is derived from low carbon sources, their eco credentials will improve further.
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Just a thought to offer comfort regarding electric cars.
The real answer is Hydrogen, either fuel cell or direct to reciprocating engine.
There is a lot of research regarding Hydrogen happening here in Australia and latest findings are sensational, so don't lose hope.
Hydrogen has the highest energy output and lowest consumption/ greatest range. It is also safer than petrol or diesel.
The Western Australia state government here has declared a project for the longest electric charging supported chain in the world, but things do have to be done on a grand scale, here.
Just around the corner is the advance of Hydrogen.
No, not an expert, but an very interested observer
With these new electric cars i only hope they make it the same height as my Tiguan (SUV) i have no problem transferring from my wheelchair into my driving seat also legroom is important with me been so tall i do not want feel cramp up to the steering wheel . and the price
Thanks but without a subscription all I can read is the technical summary of the car, and the marks awarded in designated categories. The car was the 2016 Tesla Model X only one of the range. But none of the categories are Customer Satisfaction which your post about Tesla referred to, and that is what my replies addressed.
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As Clive and the Prof both say we could be at a turning point for personal transport and having just bought a nEV, the Miniwith a low range I find it very exciting as I have never driven anything so satisfying ever. Silent at speed ex wind noise and full torque from nothing plus great ride and handling mean it's the perfect second car for us and no trekking out to a petrol station to fill up. We live 11miles from the nearest. Costs at mo in this cold weather equal 120mpg if you buy supermarket petrol (yes I have a spread sheet and that is one free charge at Tesco the rest at home. We dont have a smart meter yet nor eco 7so all our units are 12.4p so we will be cheaper on octopus as 5p unit eV tariff!!!) so far v impressed.it is the sort of car you want to go out and drive just because you can. Not Good for the license!!!!
When I first read your post my initial thought was that it was four wheel drive and with a transfer box 🤭
After watching a recording of The Italian Job last night the electric mini sounds a fine successor to the fantastic original car. Am very much looking forward to my first EV......timescale unknown at present.
No, Teslas are I think but this is front drive no gears just feels like the pedal is directly attached to speed!Only thing comes close are my motorbikes. Range limited but at 25k one of the cheapest on the market that feels well built. Big grin factor . I advise anyone in 2minds to take a test drive. We did. Sold.
That sounds good. The Japanese government are supporting EV in a big way and as well as charging infrastructure they are aiming for Japanese manufacturers to half the price of batteries. Some of this will clearly come from scaling up manufacture. If they do the same for EV as they did in designing and building ships stand by for significant progress.
Hi Jezzer pleased you like your nEV Mini sounds like a match in heaven we are on a smart meter where we live octopus put it in and so far they have been great .
Hydrogen is likely to play a part, but considering the difficulty and cost of collecting, storing, transportation, and distribution its unlikely to take over from grid to EV for the masses.Just a thought to offer comfort regarding electric cars.
The real answer is Hydrogen, either fuel cell or direct to reciprocating engine.
There is a lot of research regarding Hydrogen happening here in Australia and latest findings are sensational, so don't lose hope.
Hydrogen has the highest energy output and lowest consumption/ greatest range. It is also safer than petrol or diesel.
The Western Australia state government here has declared a project for the longest electric charging supported chain in the world, but things do have to be done on a grand scale, here.
Just around the corner is the advance of Hydrogen.
No, not an expert, but an very interested observer
Where Hydrogen is used in an IC engine, its efficiency (Energy out /energy in) may be marginally better than petrol or diesel, but its not significant, and taken in the wider context including extraction, collection, purifying, storage, and distribution, presently for both hydrogen, and other fluid fuels, hydrogen is presently far more costly, , and unless there is a major breakthrough in processes of producing Hydrogen its not likely to become much cheaper.
Possibly where there is an abundance or excess of renewable derived electricity, for example wind, solar, or hydro if that excess were put into the production of hydrogen, it might make more sense.
I'm not sure on what basis you use to show that hydrogen is safer them either petrol or Diesel. By its very nature its a purer fuel then either, and consequently it has an even greater risk of explosion if mishandled or if equipment is damaged. but being less dense than air, it will won't lie around like petroleum fuels including LPG if spilled.
Hydrogen's logistics lends it's self to fleet operators (e.g. Council, postal, public transport, possibly trains etc.) where they have a fueling station at their operating base or bases where they can be managed correctly.
Would it be easier and cheaper to convert a current petrol or diesel domestic vehicle to hydrogen than to replace the vehicle with a EV? If it can be done then it is a win win situation for many people.
I had the privilege to work with Geoff Ballard of Ballard Power Sytems in the mid 80s-early 90s when looking at ways to store and dispose of hydrogen. He was a pioneer of usable hydrogen fuel cells in buses and some other vehicles and developed hydride storage sytems. To show the safety of hydride storage he had a demo where an incendiary bullet was fired at a full hydride tank. All you got was a “ phutt” and short lived small flame. Doing the same thing to a petrol fuel tank with the equivalent energy content was spectacular.
You can convert ICE petrol to run on hydrogen and still be able to run on petrol too. Just like LPG conversions.
https://pureenergycentre.com/hydrogen-engine/
I have never really considered the possibility of converting existing IC engines to run on Hydrogen, so I Googled this question:-
how to convert petrol to run on hydrogen.
Please bear in mind I do not claim these results are accurate, but I do believe they are providing a flavour of the issues.
On scanning the results it seems yes it i'spossible, but it does not seem to be as simple as for example LPG conversions.
At least two results seemed to suggest that whist they could achieve running on pure hydrogen the performance of the engine was poorer. There is also a problem with undesirable emissions. I'd guess this is becasue the engines are designed for petrol and not optimised (Stroke, Compression and breathing) leading to incomplete combustion. This suggests conversion to pure Hydrogen is unlikely to be a practical solution.
Many of the results reveal that they don't run on pure Hydrogen, instead they continue to use a mixture their original fuel and Hydrogen. A similar approach was used on HGV's which used LPG to improve combustion to reduce emissions.
It seems the favoured hydrogen route is to use a fuel cell to produce electric power. This can either be used directly used to power a motor or to charge a battery.
Non of the solutions discuss the storage of Hydrogen in detail.
The Toyota Miria uses a reinforced high pressure tank.
The Hydride system Otherclive mentioned doesn't seem to feature in any of the current cars. but Apparently it was tried by Daimler in the 1980's
The daimler-benz hydride vehicle project
Thirty passenger cars with hydrogen and hydrogen/gasoline hybrid operation and TiFe hydride tanks will be tested in Berlin. A central refueling statio…
I don't know what the results showed, but their absence from the market now might suggest the technology might have been too expensive vs the benefits.
Edit - But If someone can come up with a practical and economic conversion system, and ensure the hydrogen supply infrastructure is there then why not.
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