My Bailey and Sprite both had front and or rear panels replaced under warranty. Bailey front and rear, Swift rear at year 5. So I’m puzzled by your comment.
The only time I have seen a manufacturer encouraging an end user to return faulty goods direct to the manufacturer are where the manufacturer sells direct - and that makes them the seller and thus subject to the controls of consumer legislation.
I don't know exactly which manufacturers Ray is referring to, but we have seen comments in the forum and elsewhere, where some caravan manufacturers have vigorously denied liability for some panel failures within their T&C's, but it may well depend on individual circumstances.
Like Dusty pointed out this thread is diverging somewhat from it title, Perhaps we should start a new thread if we want to explore warranty matters.
It’s quite common for insurance backed warranties offered with pre owned caravans to exclude front and rear panels and exterior plastic/ composite items in general. Mine did on the current van, but fortunately it had a full Swift service history and it was still under the makers five year warranty. Had absolutely no problem with Swift authorising the work.
Ray that's not entirely true or else they'd all be doing the same but Bailey only do 6years on water ingress, and cars are so very different. Kia 7Hyundai same company, 5, Nissan 5 Most German makes 3etc.
My projector night alarm clock says do not return to seller if faulty. contact manufacturer direct.
Clive , you have now introduced another type of warranty, insurance backed. I’d been thinking about the warranty / guarantee from new sponsored by the manufacturer.
Maybe we do need a new thread. Some very interesting good views aired but nothing to do with EV or ICE.
Damian /Parksy🤔🤔🤔🤔
Clive , you have now introduced another type of warranty, insurance backed. I’d been thinking about the warranty / guarantee from new sponsored by the manufacturer.
Maybe we do need a new thread. Some very interesting good views aired but nothing to do with EV or ICE.
Damian /Parksy🤔🤔🤔🤔
Dusty I only dropped that one in as I thought that is what Ray was addressing. I’m over on warranty know 😂
I have started a new thread in the General section .
Warranty Conditions. (From No new ICE cars from 2030)
Warranty Conditions. (From No new ICE cars from 2030)
Mazda, MX 30 , EV mileage range 130, , thats in the summer, no use to me. Lovely looking runaround. I wonder what that is in he winter using heater and lights, I don't want to be bothered to Google it.
If it’s like a Harley Davison Electric bike low temperature also affects battery range. But cars may be less sensitive.
hi all im not worried i will be 86 years old and i dont think i will be caravaning hope you are all well and stay well all the best .tom
Oh yes ,
Keep it up Thomas, I hope you have many more happy years
Regards, Alistair.
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Oh no cars are equally affected, our Mini says140but mid winter we were 94and it's now 103-4 but it depends too on how you drive it and I am enjoying it far too much to drive it economically!!! Plus we do short distances . It's just like petrol ,drive short distances or lots of accelerating and braking it consumes more.
As matter of interest does using the heating or air con have a big effect on the range i.e. if you were travelling from Birmingham to London.
Thanks. Seems it is a major issue with EVs. Good job the government took all this into consideration when banning the manufacture of fossil fuel vehicles.
Putting our aircon on drops the range by exactly 4miles this morning. Just checked . If you want to max the range green plus mode adds to it by reducing all non essential electrics ie switches heated seats and aircon off.
Reading your article Clive at headlines only they seem to be massively exaggerating its effect. Cold weather does reduce battery range but between 2and 14degrees we lose about 6miles too but you can warm the car while plugged in to the mains using that instead of the battery to get it toasty or cool before setting off.
Reading your article Clive at headlines only they seem to be massively exaggerating its effect. Cold weather does reduce battery range but between 2and 14degrees we lose about 6miles too but you can warm the car while plugged in to the mains using that instead of the battery to get it toasty or cool before setting off.
There is no doubt that using either heating or AC in EV's does make a noticeable difference to the available range of the car. Whether is fair to describe it as a "major issue" will depend on your point of view, however using AC is as much of an issue in ICE vehicles if you look at how it affects MPG. It's not noticed as much becasue ICE vehicles presently do have a better overall range, so its less obvious how using AC does affect the car. But as its energy usage and that energy is sourced from the fuel used there is a cost for both ICE and EV owners.
There is no doubt that needing to heat or cool and EV's cabin does use battery resources, but I, and other web based sites were practical experience has garnered evidence disagree with the 50-60% percentage losses suggested in the paper OC points to.
We need to consider heating and cooling separately.
Heating the cabin needs a source of heat. Conveniently becasue ICE engines throw away 60 to 80% of the energy in the fuel as waste heat there's plenty to grab. Unfortunately becasue EV's one lose about 10% of the battery energy, and it's not always easy to harvest it many EV's need to use direct heating elements run from the battery. As we know present day EV's have a more limited range the ICE, so any additional drain on the battery can make an appreciable difference.
However an increasing number of EV's are using air heat recovery systems, which effectively uses an Air Conditioning system working in reverse, where the system drags heat out of the exterior ambient air and pumps it into the car. Using such systems its entirely possible to use 1kWh electrical energy to scavenge 2to 3kWh of heat from the outside and this can make quite a difference and reduces the loss of range - still not as good as ICE heater, from the cars performance. but streets better than burning fossile fuels in and ICE to produce waste heat.
The story is differnt for Air Conditioning (AC) to cool the cabin, and in fact the roles are slightly reversed. AC uses mechanical energy either from an electric motor to drive the AC's compressor or as a belt driven take off from the ICE. Either way for an ICE vehicle that mechanical energy is derived from the IC engine, and that means it is just as wasteful of fuel. If the ICE uses an electric motor driven compressor, then you have the additional losses associated with the cars alternator etc. The engine power used by the AC can be felt when its turned on, and the engine reacts to the load. This load needs to be fuelled so either you accept lowered performance from your vehicle or use more throttle thus more fuel. This hits MPG and of course costs more. The effect is even more noticeable in smaller engined cars.
In addition, as the IC engine and exhaust is close to the cabin in most cars, the fact they are hot it will add heat to the cabin which the AC is asked to remove, so its very likely AC in an ICE will have to work harder or longer than in the equivalent EV.
In the EV, the AC will have a dedicated motor which is inherently more efficient than the ICE system. Because EV's produce so little excess heat, the cabins are inherently cooler, so the AC has less work to do thus saving battery usage.
There is no doubt that needing to heat or cool and EV's cabin does use battery resources, but I, and other web based sites were practical experience has garnered evidence disagree with the 50-60% percentage losses suggested in the paper OC points to.
We need to consider heating and cooling separately.
Heating the cabin needs a source of heat. Conveniently becasue ICE engines throw away 60 to 80% of the energy in the fuel as waste heat there's plenty to grab. Unfortunately becasue EV's one lose about 10% of the battery energy, and it's not always easy to harvest it many EV's need to use direct heating elements run from the battery. As we know present day EV's have a more limited range the ICE, so any additional drain on the battery can make an appreciable difference.
However an increasing number of EV's are using air heat recovery systems, which effectively uses an Air Conditioning system working in reverse, where the system drags heat out of the exterior ambient air and pumps it into the car. Using such systems its entirely possible to use 1kWh electrical energy to scavenge 2to 3kWh of heat from the outside and this can make quite a difference and reduces the loss of range - still not as good as ICE heater, from the cars performance. but streets better than burning fossile fuels in and ICE to produce waste heat.
The story is differnt for Air Conditioning (AC) to cool the cabin, and in fact the roles are slightly reversed. AC uses mechanical energy either from an electric motor to drive the AC's compressor or as a belt driven take off from the ICE. Either way for an ICE vehicle that mechanical energy is derived from the IC engine, and that means it is just as wasteful of fuel. If the ICE uses an electric motor driven compressor, then you have the additional losses associated with the cars alternator etc. The engine power used by the AC can be felt when its turned on, and the engine reacts to the load. This load needs to be fuelled so either you accept lowered performance from your vehicle or use more throttle thus more fuel. This hits MPG and of course costs more. The effect is even more noticeable in smaller engined cars.
In addition, as the IC engine and exhaust is close to the cabin in most cars, the fact they are hot it will add heat to the cabin which the AC is asked to remove, so its very likely AC in an ICE will have to work harder or longer than in the equivalent EV.
In the EV, the AC will have a dedicated motor which is inherently more efficient than the ICE system. Because EV's produce so little excess heat, the cabins are inherently cooler, so the AC has less work to do thus saving battery usage.
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Nice post Prof. Our Mini has air source hest pump and I don't find
4miles an issue to heat the car but if you do the electric motor does give some heat so to gain 4miles you won't freeze!
4miles an issue to heat the car but if you do the electric motor does give some heat so to gain 4miles you won't freeze!
Being SAE they were looking at quite low ambient temperatures down to -18 deg C. Being so large the US ownership will see bigger temperature extremes than we would. But even so Europe will see a wide range from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean.
There's no denying the load that cabin heating or cooling adds to the power usage in an EV is a concern, primarily because we don't have batteries at the moment that match the range of the fuel in many ICE vehicles. As I explained above even ICE vehicles need to find the energy to provide these services, its just that generally people don't notice how much energy (Fuel) they use becasue they don't have range anxiety
Once or if we find systems that can store up to 500miles range, or we have access to reasonably fast charging this particular issue won't have the same headline attention.
Once or if we find systems that can store up to 500miles range, or we have access to reasonably fast charging this particular issue won't have the same headline attention.
From what I read Sub zero temps result in a 41 % reduction in range , whilst at 95deg F using air con reduces range by 17%.. Not good but I expect by 2030 some kind of chemical heating and chilling will have been invented. Eg a window winder handle🤪🤪
Again those figures seem higher than many I've seen, and of course it does depend on teh conditions at the time.
Chemical heating - now that's not such a bad idea. There are some salts where they can be heated and the turn from the solid to a liquid, and they can absorb quite a lot of heat energy in the process but the temperatures are quite high. Keep them in a well insulated container and they will retain there heat for many hours. When you need to heat the cabin, blow some air across the container and it will heat up. It may need to be mixed with cold to get the ideal temperature.
Thank you for elaborating and hopefully you can help expand on the above article which answere a number of questions. Would I be correct in thinking that at temperatures of minus 10 -11C these air heat systems become ineffective? We have air source heating at home and if the temperature dropped below minus 11C no heating. I appreciate that it is not very often in the UK temperatures drop down to minus 11C or more, but if ou factor in the wind chill there may be the possibility.
We also have the issue of the system icing over at temperatures of zero, it then has to defrost itself to become effective again and to defrost requires energy.
Do you have any idea how they get around extreme cold temperatures?
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