No new diesel cars after 2030

[Dustydog]

The answer overall lies with Hyundai and Kia whose EVs come with five year and seven year warranty respectively. I understand the potential £2k saving overall but a lot depends on the initial capital cost outlay. The EV today is still more expensive than the like for like ICE. Maybe that will change?

 

[otherclive]

The answer overall lies with Hyundai and Kia whose EVs come with five year and seven year warranty respectively. I understand the potential £2k saving overall but a lot depends on the initial capital cost outlay. The EV today is still more expensive than the like for like ICE. Maybe that will change?

Even Citroen are now giving a 5 year/100000 mile warranty which is transferable across the whole range of cars. Sooner or later others must follow. I bought my first Sorento on the basis that in the US Kia were giving 10 years/ 100000 miles. Of course here we only got 3 years/ 60000 miles, but of course it wasn’t required anyway. Unlike its predecessor a Disco 2, the ultimate off road car. Loved its dealership to death.

 

[JezzerB]

8year battery warranty on our Mini and like for like spec wise the same price as a Cooper S with roughly the same performance too. One article I read said aliken the battery to the ice engine. You wouldn't or very rarely go to the manufacturer for a new one, as it would cost a fortune. Instead you'd buy a recon or have a rebuild. This is what will happen with batteries.

 

[Buckman]

8year battery warranty on our Mini and like for like spec wise the same price as a Cooper S with roughly the same performance too. One article I read said aliken the battery to the ice engine. You wouldn't or very rarely go to the manufacturer for a new one, as it would cost a fortune. Instead you'd buy a recon or have a rebuild. This is what will happen with batteries.

If you sold the Mini can the remainder of the battery warranty be transferred and if so at what cost?

 

[RogerL]

8year battery warranty on our Mini and like for like spec wise the same price as a Cooper S with roughly the same performance too. One article I read said aliken the battery to the ice engine. You wouldn't or very rarely go to the manufacturer for a new one, as it would cost a fortune. Instead you'd buy a recon or have a rebuild. This is what will happen with batteries.

Manufacturers are working very hard to include Intellectual Property (IP) which prevents 3rd parties being able to work on their vehicles - Tesla is the prime example of this.

 

[JezzerB]

The warranty is with the car; unlike caravans the next owner would get the full benefit-8 years or 100,000 miles. No transfer fees.

 

[Buckman]

The warranty is with the car; unlike caravans the next owner would get the full benefit-8 years or 100,000 miles. No transfer fees.

Are you obliged to have it serviced by the dealership or can a 3rd party do servicing and the warranty still remain intact? What is the cost of the service and how often is a service required?

 

[otherclive]

Under UK consumer law you have the right to have your vehicle serviced anywhere, even by yourself. However you do have to demonstrate that it has been serviced strictly in accordance with the manufacturers schedule. That’s the sting in the tail with new design/ technology vehicles where they are so new the “ independent “ garages may not be up to speed. But in time that should change.

Jezzer has answered the servicing costs/time question previously.

 

[RogerL]

Under UK consumer law you have the right to have your vehicle serviced anywhere, even by yourself. However you do have to demonstrate that it has been serviced strictly in accordance with the manufacturers schedule. That’s the sting in the tail with new design/ technology vehicles where they are so new the “ independent “ garages may not be up to speed. But in time that should change.

It won't change - the requirement for servicing to follow the manufacturers' schedule is impossible to comply with for most cars nowadays as the schedule includes software updates which can only be done using manufacturers' hardware which they won't sell to non-franchised dealers.

 

[Raywood]

I do appreciate batteries will be recycled but I am not sure if all of the contents will be of any use in ten years time when the make up may have changed
. As things stand the car makers have different ideas on the type and sized and everything else on these cars. It does seem that by the time the current cars have reached the point the batteries need replacing, there will be a multitude of batteries with specific ones needed for different cars, and while the battery costs may have dropped this incompatibility point will have pushed other costs up. If you want to replace the batteries in a current car you ae stuck with whatever the maker wants to charge as other makes batteries will not generally fit. Whatever though you are going to have a major job and I do not see the costs coming down to the point where someone with a ten year old car will will always wish to spend that sum on a car now worth not a lot more than the batteries and fitting cost.
What we need is standardisation, so as with any ICE you can recharge anywhere with out specific adaptors and the supply and fitting need for new batteries will need sorting.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If you sold the Mini can the remainder of the battery warranty be transferred and if so at what cost?

It would depend on the particular terms and conditions of the original purchase., But assuming the t&C permit the transfer of the warranty and unless there is an annual charge to maintain the warranty, as with caravans and most cars there is only usually a small administration cost to transfer the beneficiary.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The warranty is with the car; unlike caravans the next owner would get the full benefit-8 years or 100,000 miles. No transfer fees.

I presume you are referring just to your mini. For other makes you do need to check the T&C's, but I'd guess most warranties would be transferable with may be small admin charge.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I do appreciate batteries will be recycled but I am not sure if all of the contents will be of any use in ten years time when the make up may have changed
. As things stand the car makers have different ideas on the type and sized and everything else on these cars. It does seem that by the time the current cars have reached the point the batteries need replacing, there will be a multitude of batteries with specific ones needed for different cars, and while the battery costs may have dropped this incompatibility point will have pushed other costs up. If you want to replace the batteries in a current car you ae stuck with whatever the maker wants to charge as other makes batteries will not generally fit. Whatever though you are going to have a major job and I do not see the costs coming down to the point where someone with a ten year old car will will always wish to spend that sum on a car now worth not a lot more than the batteries and fitting cost.
What we need is standardisation, so as with any ICE you can recharge anywhere with out specific adaptors and the supply and fitting need for new batteries will need sorting.

I have different perspective. Virtually every constituent of present day batteries when recycled correctly will produce materials, which will have use for many years to come. Just becasue a material has come from a battery does not mean it has to be used in a battery.

As I pointed out previously present day car batteries use multiple individual cells just wired (Vastly over simplified) together. And cells that are usable can be removed and fitted into another battery pack. It doesn't have to be the same make of car battery it just needs to use the type of cell.

For that reason there are already some companies that are repairing battery packs using components from crash damaged packs.

It's too early to find enough examples of what motorists will want to do when they reach the point of needing to replace a battery outside of the warranty period, but I suspect it will follow what presently happens when ICE cars reach the point that a new engine might be required. I'm certain that some will be keen to replace EV batteries but some will not think its worth it. What is significantly different is how ICE cars often show signs of damaged associated with engine vibrations, which EV simply don't suffer, so the condition of a similarly aged and used EV may be better than the ICE so it may a more attractive proposition to consider a replacement battery.

I agree with your points about paying for public charging. It definitely needs to be improved. There should be more charging locations and Its presently far to fragmented with too many separate apps. It should be like a fuel station where you arrive plug in and pay with a debit or credit card or even cash.

There already is a fair degree of standardisation regarding the connectors required. For good technical reasons, there has to a couple of types of charging connectors to segregate AC and DC systems.

 

[Dustydog]

SWMBO Kia has been serviced by our Kia dealer from new. We have dealt with them for 20:years and know if anything goes wrong they respond. As Roger says all updates and recalls are attended to, foc. So imo we are fully protecting the 7 year warranty, and hoping for a good px when she changes it. My VW is out of warranty now so my local chap does it all very well. The Kia warranty goes with the car not the purchaser so transfer at point of sale is a zero cost.

 

[otherclive]

It would depend on the particular terms and conditions of the original purchase., But assuming the t&C permit the transfer of the warranty and unless there is an annual charge to maintain the warranty, as with caravans and most cars there is only usually a small administration cost to transfer the beneficiary.

I’ve never been charged for the cars warranty to be transferred. It just goes with the car and should a warranty issue arise as long as you can show that it has been serviced iaw the makers requirements the work get carried out at whichever dealer you choose.

 

[RogerL]

I’ve never been charged to for the cars warranty bro be transferred. It just goes with the car and should a warranty issue arise as long as you can show that it has been serviced iaw the makers requirements the work get carried out at whichever dealer you choose.

That's how car warranties work - although the short-lived Vauxhall warranty for life only applied to the original owner and couldn't be transferred - when the car was sold on the usual 3-yeats from new warranty applied.

 

[Dustydog]

And we come full circle! Caravan Warranties are a mine field as far as transfer goes. Some simple, a cost perhaps, a no no, or very limited. Swift as an example are not bad unless you have the Extended Bodyshell Warranty which cannot be transferred! Why ??? Beyond me. Just another caravan foible geared against the purchaser😢😢😢😢

 

[ProfJohnL]

One key point about the manufacturer's warranty, is they are not obliged to offer one. Consequently there is no common or legal pattern for them to follow, and they do not have to transfer to second or subsequent owners.

This is not just about caravan manufacturers. The original reason to offer a manufacturers warranty was not to just make it easy for customers to get their product serviced, but was to generate additional customer footfall and income to the manufacturers dealers. It only worked because the manufacturers originally made it only permissible for their dealers to carry out the warranty and service work, otherwise the warranty fell void.

It was only after several legal challenges that warranties were confirmed as being a restrictive contract, and thus subject to scrutiny for unfair terms . This is why manufacturers cannot now insist their own dealers have exclusive rites to carry out work.

So it is entirely up to the manufacture if they will allow the warranty to transfer, and whether they do or don't charge to transfer it.

 

[Dustydog]

I realised later we have gone way off tack from the OP. Maybe a new thread is needed? Happy to delete this if asked.
Surely the point of any Warranty is to instil confidence in the buying public? I agree they don’t have to offer one but I bet their sales would slide without one. I appreciate the point regarding manufacturer dealer relationship. But that was a flawed concept as we know.

 

[ProfJohnL]

...
Surely the point of any Warranty is to instil confidence in the buying public?

Hmmm confidence in what?

Confidence in knowing that becasue manufacturers have decided to make it easy to get faulty goods repaired, they can continue to use shoddy design workmanship or materials to cut corners and appear to offer a cheaper option to their competitors .... You only have to look at the caravan industry to see how that works.

OK I know I'm being cynical but .......

 

[otherclive]

Hmmm confidence in what?

Confidence in knowing that becasue manufacturers have decided to make it easy to get faulty goods repaired, they can continue to use shoddy design workmanship or materials to cut corners and appear to offer a cheaper option to their competitors .... You only have to look at the caravan industry to see how that works.

OK I know I'm being cynical but .......

Easy to get faulty goods repaired! Yes extremely cynical.

Are you not forgetting that manufacturers bear the costs of those repairs whether directly or by passing some or all of the cost down the supply chain. Buyers too. When Datsun first came to UK they offered the same warranty as VW. But their warranty costs were times lower than VW due to the infinitely higher reliability of their cars. Could that be why Kia and Hyundai, and Toyota feel so confident in the quality of their cars that they can offer very good warranties without financial detriment. The buying public aren’t all idiots they know that some brands achieve good quality as also offer good warranties. Aforementioned car makers, Bosch, AEG, Samsung etc for domestic appliances. The difference with the car makes is that prices are similar across the board whether you get a reliable brand with a good warranty or a less reliable brand with inferior warranty. Perhaps the better quality better warranty makes are more profitable.

My comments do not relate to the obtuse world of caravans.

 

[Dustydog]

That’s exactly my point Clive. Consumer confidence in generous warranties is a major selling point. The Caravan Industry have tried with their occasional 10 year water ingress guarantees, but then spoilt it with so many transfer riders. Lest we forget😉, Powrtouch cracked the market with their 5 year no quibble warranty. No wonder Truma bought them! That is Consumer Confidence .

 

[ProfJohnL]

Being a confirmed cynic, I also know that by introducing a manufactures warranty was another way the manufacturers could begin to bring their warranty costs down.

Please remember this is not specifically about caravan or car manufacturers.

Prior to warranty schemes, just as OC suggested sellers would return the faulty item(s) to the manufacturer and charge the full labour rate for any work carried out. To cut costs, the manufacturers, introduced dealerships, and struck the deal where for becoming an exclusive dealer in an area for the manufacturers products, this would bring more customers to the dealers outlets. This included any warranty work, and as this could significantly increase a dealers turn over, the manufacturers negotiated a significantly lower labour rate for warranty work.

We know the warranty market has changed and now any qualified and trained professional can carry out warranty work, but most manufacturers will vigorously resist upping warranty labour rates closer to normal costs.

 

[Raywood]

My feeling is that manufacturers only offer warranties because the others do and without one you would not buy it. Buyers look at the length and not the detail so people are impressed with some until they need to claim and see the restrictions. Things like caravan ones excluding the front and rear panels and a lot more after a year in a three year guarantee, make them almost worthless for many. You still have rights against the dealer assuming they are still there but this is not publicised.

 

[Dustydog]

Prof raises an interesting point about Dealerships. It is true that certain items we buy say return direct to manufacturer if faulty. Dyson for example actively encourage you to buy from them direct. Cars must be different . Whilst at the Glasgow museum of Transport the other year I noticed a dealerships name . Arnold Clark started his car chain in 1954. I can’t recall if was ever possible to buy direct from the Caravan manufacturer? Whatever I believe we can rest assure the CRA15 will protect us.