Not again

[Buckman]

If you've got a UPS, surely VOIP would still work - it relies on copper/optic cable to the local exchange, not airborne signals to the mobile phone mast.

Sadly no power to the local rural exchange and no power to masts equates to no Internet and no communication. We are on FTTC to our home.

When the modem for the wifi stopped working, I went outside to an area where I know I get at least 2 bar signal, but zero mobile signal so no Internet and of course no communication. Even DAB radio would not work so not sure what would happen in an emergency if they shut down the AM & FM transmitters?

Power went off at about 3.33pm and did not come back on until about 7.45pm so quite a long break. No storms, wind or rain around at the time and the power break affected a few square miles.

 

[Sam Vimes]

We have back up UPS for wifi, 240v inverter to power lights, small Tv or radio, gas lamps, camping gas stove, gas BBQ, torches in every room etc.

The power break affected 439 homes in a very large rural area which is served by one network mast. Sadly after about an hour this mast ran out of power and the networks covering our area failed. Apparently the mast will only last about 1 - 2 hours depending on usage before it runs out of power. That means no internet, no phones etc. and you cannot communicate with emergency services.

Brazen thieves could in full view of yourself steal your car, break into home while you are there, steal your goods etc and you cannot phone the police because the landlines have been removed by BT. I wonder if the government thought of this when pushing for landlines etc to be dumped?

A little confusing to me....

From past posts it seems you're on FTTC, which is a hard wire to a street cabinet, and that you use Wifi calling which is not dependent on a mast but a connection to your router and hence internet. None the less the street cabinet does need power from the grid and should have a battery backup. So if the cabinet loses power your internet and phone will be ok for a while but I don't know how long.

As for masts...... Those in rural areas may well be self powered and not reliant on the grid. If the power source for these - renewable, generator or battery does become exhausted then you may well lose connection. One hopes that measures are in place to replenish the supplies before they become exhausted.

However, for emergency calls your mobile phone will roam to whatever mast and service it can find. In fact you don't even need a sim card to make emergency calls.

Even masts reliant on the grid will have some form of backup but in reading the Ofcom report of this year about resilience, it doesn't install much confidence to me. Back up of 20% of all masts should be 1hour. Again the assumption is that there will be more than one mast you can connect to.

This may still leave some problems for some people as rural areas may not be covered by more than one mast.

 

[Buckman]

A little confusing to me....

From past posts it seems you're on FTTC, which is a hard wire to a street cabinet, and that you use Wifi calling which is not dependent on a mast but a connection to your router and hence internet. None the less the street cabinet does need power from the grid and should have a battery backup. So if the cabinet loses power your internet and phone will be ok for a while but I don't know how long.

That is correct however the exchange was within the power outage area so when the batteries at the exchange were depleted, no phone or data transmission. Our rural exchange is about 2 miles away. We had wifi for about 2 hours befroe it all shut down.

The masts that covers our area also lost power as no signal in the areas within walking range where I know we do get a signal. I doubt if we could have made an emergency call as they would not have been able to transmit that call? We did not try making an emergency call so have no idea?

 

[RogerL]

It's a first world problem! It just shows how reliant we all are on modern technology.

Except in emergency, it's not really a problem if my phone and internet don't work.

My backup in an emergency in such circumstances would be to get in the car and drive to where assistance is - if it's me that needs help my wife would ask neighbours.

 

[Buckman]

It's a first world problem! It just shows how reliant we all are on modern technology.

Except in emergency, it's not really a problem if my phone and internet don't work.

My backup in an emergency in such circumstances would be to get in the car and drive to where assistance is - if it's me that needs help my wife would ask neighbours.

In Africa for many weeks at time I lived in the sticks and managed okay without electric. No solar panels etc. Sometimes the nearest phone was a call box several miles away. In the services we had battery operated radios with Nicam batteries for communication. The batteries lasted quite well as only switched on for several minutes a day.

In this modern age we have become too dependent on the government doing the right thing and us having abundant power. We would do similar to yourself in driving to an area where there was signal, but in a real emergency, time is of the essence and could be the difference between life and death. However when you are paying good money for a service, one expects all bases to be covered!

I am looking into Starlink costs for residential and it seems to be about £35 a month for unlimited data up to 100mbps. Currently we are paying almost £29 a month for FTTC connection at about 70mbps and that excludes a landline.

 

[Sam Vimes]

You mention the government in the context of this problem but the Mobile Phone and Broadband Networks are run by private companies. They are the ones that are responsible for the planning and running of the networks. Ofcom is supposed to have oversight of these bodies but while its a government approved entity its not part of the government.

 

[Buckman]

You mention the government in the context of this problem but the Mobile Phone and Broadband Networks are run by private companies. They are the ones that are responsible for the planning and running of the networks. Ofcom is supposed to have oversight of these bodies but while its a government approved entity its not part of the government.

That is correct, but who has pushed these private companies in this direction? However it matters not whether government or private when you have no power!

 

[otherclive]

That is correct, but who has pushed these private companies in this direction? However it matters not whether government or private when you have no power!

I don’t suppose other countries have moved in this direction like we have. I recall when we first had a family we couldn’t afford a phone so any calls we had a three quarter mile walk to a public phone. No one could ring us unless i loitered around the phone box at a pre arranged time hoping someone else wasn’t using the phone. Absolutely great days. 🤭

 

[Buckman]

I don’t suppose other countries have moved in this direction like we have. I recall when we first had a family we couldn’t afford a phone so any calls we had a three quarter mile walk to a public phone. No one could ring us unless i loitered around the phone box at a pre arranged time hoping someone else wasn’t using the phone. Absolutely great days. 🤭

I don't think any of the call boxes around us work any more? The one in the village is locked as it has a defibrillator in it. Others have been removed.

 

[Sam Vimes]

That is correct, but who has pushed these private companies in this direction? However it matters not whether government or private when you have no power!

In my opinion the government doesn't have the brain power to come up with these developments - they are industry led. The goverment will support them but the implementation is down to the private companies and they usually have making money as their first priority.

In the case of fibre deployment, this not only brought benefits to the user but also gave the companies such as Openreach the opportunity to retire the old copper/ali wire systems. These not only couldn't support the speeds that fibre would bring but were costly to maintain and unreliable.

In the early days of fibre deployment Ofcom had already the problems of power failures when using VoIP and attempted to mandate that the Commmunication Providers (CPs) provided battery backup equipment in particular to vunerable users. Naturally this would cost the CPs a lot of money so there was a push backup to do so across the board.

In those days I attempted to get, FOC, battery back up equipment from Openreach/BT. It was a lenghty process with much discussion and the invovlement of our local MP. In the end OR/BT gave me BBS units. Due to their incompetence I finished up with 5 units.

The debate still goes on and there are other methods now taking place to keep the old wired systems running for vunerable users.

We are now seeing the current government promoting the mad rush towards including AI in everything, without understanding the consequences. Its the usual case of FOMO - the Fear Of Missing Out.

 

[Sam Vimes]

I don’t suppose other countries have moved in this direction like we have. I recall when we first had a family we couldn’t afford a phone so any calls we had a three quarter mile walk to a public phone. No one could ring us unless i loitered around the phone box at a pre arranged time hoping someone else wasn’t using the phone. Absolutely great days. 🤭

There are many other countries facing the same challenges. The last Ofcom report I saw considers the examples or Australia, Switzerland and Norway and others. With the exception of Australia the cost is down to the provider.

Country	Hours of backup required through legislation or regulation​	Hours of backup known if no requirement specified ​	Implemented through​	Causes for introducing requirement​	Pre-existing infrastructure	Responsibility for funding
Australia	No obligation	12 hours (for a limited​ number of sites)	Government scheme	Natural disasters	Some rural sites had power backup	Government
Austria	No obligation	30 mins – a few hours​	MNOs​	Not available	N/A​	MNOs​
Belgium	Not specified65	1 – 2 hours for most sites​	MNOs​	Not available	N/A​	MNOs​

Country	Hours of backup required through legislation or regulation​	Hours of backup known if no requirement specified ​	Implemented through​	Causes for introducing requirement​	Pre-existing infrastructure	Responsibility for funding
Bulgaria	No obligation	4 – 24 hours (depending on rurality)​	MNOs​	Issues with the power network	N/A​	MNOs​
State of California	72 hours​ (high-risk fire areas)[1]	N/ A​	Regulation​	Wildfires​	Not available	MNOs​
Estonia	≥3- ≥6 hours​ (depending on rurality)[2]	N/A​	Legislation​	Natural disasters and security	Not available	MNOs​
Finland	≥2- ≥6 hours​ (depending on rurality, with exceptions) [3]	N/A​	Regulation​	Natural disasters	Not available	MNOs​
Greece	Not specified[4]​	Varied​	Legislation​	Security​	N/A​	MNOs​
Hungary	Not specified[5]	Varied​	Legislation​	Security​	N/A​	MNOs​
India	No obligation	Varied[6]​	MNOs​	Issues with the power network	N/A​	MNOs​
Ireland	Not specified[7][8]	10 mins – 8 hours (site​ dependent) 73​	Legislation​	Security of networks	N/A​	MNOs​

Country	Hours of backup required through legislation or regulation​	Hours of backup known if no requirement specified ​	Implemented through​	Causes for introducing requirement​	Pre-existing infrastructure	Responsibility for funding
Japan	Minimum 24 hours near Government offices[9]​	4 – 72 hours (depending on site)[10]	Regulation and MNOs​	Natural disasters	Separate base stations specifically for​ emergencies	MNOs​
Malta	No obligation	30 mins – 3 hours	MNOs​	Not available	N/A​	MNOs​
Norway	≥ 2 hours - ≥ 4 hours (depending on rurality)​	N/A​	Regulation​	Natural disasters	Some rural sites had power backup	MNOs[11]​
Romania	1 - 3 hours (depending on rurality, 6​ hours for hub sites)[12]	N/A​	Regulation​	Issues with power network	All MNOs have backup installed already	MNOs​
Slovenia	2 hours[13]​	N/A​	Legislation​	Security and business continuity plan​	Not available	MNOs​
South Africa	No obligation	~8 hours[14]​	MNOs​	Issues with the power network	N/A​	MNOs​
Sweden	≥1- ≥ 4 hours (dependent on rurality)[15]​	N/A​	Regulation​	Issues with the power network	Not available	MNOs[16]​
Switzerland	Under discussion	N/A​	Legislation​	Security​	N/A​	MNOs​

---

 

[Buckman]

Whether government or private I could not really care, but the fact remains that in the event of a national blackout after 2 - 3 hours no Internet etc! That needs to be resolved!

 

[Martin_E]

We used to manage very well prior to internet etc, a few hours off line I can’t see an issue with.

 

[RogerL]

Whether government or private I could not really care, but the fact remains that in the event of a national blackout after 2 - 3 hours no Internet etc! That needs to be resolved!

The temporary loss of the internet isn't, or shouldn't be, an issue - neither is temporary loss of mobile and landline phones - except in the specific case of emergencies - loss of the internet isn't an emergency!

 

[otherclive]

I don't think any of the call boxes around us work any more? The one in the village is locked as it has a defibrillator in it. Others have been removed.

Well that’s one emergency taken care of then. Providing of course the call box can be unlocked to retrieve the defibrillator.

 

[Dustydog]

I don’t suppose other countries have moved in this direction like we have. I recall when we first had a family we couldn’t afford a phone so any calls we had a three quarter mile walk to a public phone. No one could ring us unless i loitered around the phone box at a pre arranged time hoping someone else wasn’t using the phone. Absolutely great days. 🤭

Back in the day my nearest pay phone was in the Bell Inn🍺🍺

 

[otherclive]

Perhaps we should be thinking about having a stash of red seafarers flares or for the tech aware a sea farers energency location beacon. The latter would get you a Coastguard helicopter very quickly.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Life is just not risk free. All we can do is to try and assess the major risks and work out a strategy to mitigate them as best we can.

As far as regulatory authorities go...e.g. Ofcom, Ofwat, etc.... I ve always thought that in many cases they are a little powerless when things prove to go wrong.