Now here's a pretty pickle - who'll buy a 4x4 now??
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- May 12, 2006
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Global warming is here, don't let it just wash over you.
Everyone who has any sense understands what you mean.
The ANSWER lies in TECHNOLOGY not in higher taxes so that Politicians can pretend they Understand. They DON'T UNDERSTAND TECHNOLOGY,
If Toyota or Ford thought they would be shut down, they would come up with the answer tomorrow. Only the politicians don't want the answer, because it would show how incompetent they are at spending OUR MONEY.
Val & Frank
Everyone who has any sense understands what you mean.
The ANSWER lies in TECHNOLOGY not in higher taxes so that Politicians can pretend they Understand. They DON'T UNDERSTAND TECHNOLOGY,
If Toyota or Ford thought they would be shut down, they would come up with the answer tomorrow. Only the politicians don't want the answer, because it would show how incompetent they are at spending OUR MONEY.
Val & Frank
Targeting any vehicle can only be undertaken by politicians. Politicians care only about one thing and that is getting re-elected to Cars can only be targetted by emissions and the rich will continue to pay and it will be the middle classes who pay the brunt. Squeeze too tight and protests will be rapid, the proposed increase of the London Congestion Charge does not come into effect until after the next mayoral election - make of that what you may.
There are many things I could sacrifice before I give up my choice of vehicle. As I said before more taxes the less money in the economy. During the fuel crisis a few years back Tony Blair said that duty and VAT on fuel paid for hospitals, schools and other public services. Get rid of 'gas guzzlers' and they will still want the money - they will get it from the motorist somehow.
There are many things I could sacrifice before I give up my choice of vehicle. As I said before more taxes the less money in the economy. During the fuel crisis a few years back Tony Blair said that duty and VAT on fuel paid for hospitals, schools and other public services. Get rid of 'gas guzzlers' and they will still want the money - they will get it from the motorist somehow.
- Oct 9, 2006
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Better sell my V8 Auto Discovery II then. Runs on LPG but it is a 4x4!
Oh no, now I've done it, when my new Santa Fe (Band F; which Band is your Jag in?) arrives I'll have two 4x4s. How will the World cope!
Shortsighted - nah don't think so. Just better educated and not ignorant enough to believe 4x4s are the cause of the World's pollution problems.
Do know much gas a cow can fart!
Oh no, now I've done it, when my new Santa Fe (Band F; which Band is your Jag in?) arrives I'll have two 4x4s. How will the World cope!
Shortsighted - nah don't think so. Just better educated and not ignorant enough to believe 4x4s are the cause of the World's pollution problems.
Do know much gas a cow can fart!
It's all very well saying 'buy the vehicle you want regardless' or 'car makers will do this or that in the future'...but that doesn't solve the immediate problem.
The fact is that as things stand at the moment the writing is on the wall for the 4x4.
An awful lot of people living around London will balk at paying
The fact is that as things stand at the moment the writing is on the wall for the 4x4.
An awful lot of people living around London will balk at paying
Ricky is correct about one thing, the vilification of 4x4s means that in the near future owners are going to be paying through their noses to keep one.
Unfair? Oh yes, but owners are an easy target for taxes. There are many ways to reduce the problem of CO2 emissions, but only a few that produce extra revenue. You'll probably find LPG going up in price soon, due entirely to lost tax money, not concerns over the environment.
It can be easy to swallow the bitter pill of price rises, but to do so only encourages the robbery. Now is the time to make a stand and fight back, before the greens/tax men make you swap a lung for your road fund license.
You will notice little sympathy from owners of small cars, they have an "I'm Alright Jack" attitude at the moment. The trouble is, that while they won't help with the 4x4 debate now, it won't be long before the attention is turned on them. Mr Brown (or his successor) will come looking for them too.
Still, someone has to pay for civil servant pensions, don't they.
Unfair? Oh yes, but owners are an easy target for taxes. There are many ways to reduce the problem of CO2 emissions, but only a few that produce extra revenue. You'll probably find LPG going up in price soon, due entirely to lost tax money, not concerns over the environment.
It can be easy to swallow the bitter pill of price rises, but to do so only encourages the robbery. Now is the time to make a stand and fight back, before the greens/tax men make you swap a lung for your road fund license.
You will notice little sympathy from owners of small cars, they have an "I'm Alright Jack" attitude at the moment. The trouble is, that while they won't help with the 4x4 debate now, it won't be long before the attention is turned on them. Mr Brown (or his successor) will come looking for them too.
Still, someone has to pay for civil servant pensions, don't they.
How many correspondents here will actually be affected by the increase in Levy? I worked in Central London from 1994-1998 and after a Seven year gap I started to commute into London once a week well what a change.
The Buses are hugely better they run more frequently and go to where you want to go - as for the cost I think I pay about
The Buses are hugely better they run more frequently and go to where you want to go - as for the cost I think I pay about
Global warming has been with us since the end of the last ice age ,how do think the ice melted,there were no cars thenGlobal warming is with us and that is a fact, we have all got our part to play in combating it, we cannot just sit back and let it happen.
I am not going to start quoting facts and figures, just google "global warming" and read about what is going on right under our noses, do not bury your heads in the sand.
If by taxation, congestion charges or by whatever means we can reduce 4x4 ownership in this country it has got to be a good thing
- May 4, 2005
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The effect of the congestion charge means that there are fewer cars on the road and generally speaking London is a nicer place to work in.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4153/is_20060705/ai_n16515963
and yet this artical says that averages speeds are down and congestion is reaching pre CG levels.
Brian
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4153/is_20060705/ai_n16515963
and yet this artical says that averages speeds are down and congestion is reaching pre CG levels.
Brian
Exactly collinn ,you hit the nail on the headThe thing is, I wouldn't mind if I thought that punitive measures against cars would achieve anything. But they cannot and they won't.
In the current drought, people largely accepted water saving measures because supplies were very successfully conserved (according to my water supplier). Fine, a means to an end.
But with emissions, it's a totally different matter.
Look at the globe - you will see a pin prick that is the British Isles (responsible in fact for just 2% of world pollution).
If every single mode of transport and polluting industry was wiped out here, it would not make a blind bit of difference to the perceived pollution threat to the world.
"Spitting" and "into the wind" come to mind!
If there is a problem, then it can only possibly be resolved at an international level - and that means world wide agreement to cut the emissions, particularly in the US and China.
It would mean we all recognise the crisis and, OK, we've got to make sacrifices to solve it. I could live with that because it would be realistic and, as in the water, analagy would actually achieve the solution.
But in the meantime we have to suffer pointless, vicious, vindictive and mis-directed hammer blows to our pockets and to our freedom of choice...
In the meantime, car manufacturers across the world are gearing up to churn out more and more 4x4s. Not much hope of green tendency there...
In the meantime, our leaders - government, royal family, captains of industry - drive around in convoys of Jags and Range Rovers. Not much ethical conscience on view there...
In the meantime, we are urged to switch off our TV standby at nights - while in the next few weeks we will waste thousands on excessive ('excessive', I said) Christmas lights!
Funny old world...
G
Guest
My daughter drives into London on business and uses a gas powered Smart car, she can afford to pay the congestion charge but the Smart is her protest.
She could of course drive a Diesel Jag to impress people ;-)
Quite frankly all clients etc are iterested in is the service and money side not what you drive!
We used to do family shopping trips combined with theatre trips. That no longer happens as Ken doesn't want us there! My daughter now tries as much as possible to do business outside of London she no longer uses London based designers and other London business. She has moved business to Paris and Brussels and Zurich and others are doing the same!
We have two new X5's on order for the summer a Diesel for my wife and another 4.8 for me.
We head home next week for tank full of Petrol for less than
She could of course drive a Diesel Jag to impress people ;-)
Quite frankly all clients etc are iterested in is the service and money side not what you drive!
We used to do family shopping trips combined with theatre trips. That no longer happens as Ken doesn't want us there! My daughter now tries as much as possible to do business outside of London she no longer uses London based designers and other London business. She has moved business to Paris and Brussels and Zurich and others are doing the same!
We have two new X5's on order for the summer a Diesel for my wife and another 4.8 for me.
We head home next week for tank full of Petrol for less than
- Oct 9, 2006
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Why do you anti 4x4 people do what you do? So many non 4x4 cars will be affected by Ken's tax and are just if not more polluting. Go here to see just how many there are http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vedSearch.asp.
Both (one on order)of my 4x4s are not listed in Band G. There isn't any logic to your argument or your actions.
So what is it? What exactly are you against? Why on a regular basis does my LPG Discovery get vandalised?
Both (one on order)of my 4x4s are not listed in Band G. There isn't any logic to your argument or your actions.
So what is it? What exactly are you against? Why on a regular basis does my LPG Discovery get vandalised?
Brian said: " and yet this artical says that averages speeds are down and congestion is reaching pre CG levels".
This is because Red Ken has appointed anti car people to high position in Transport for London. Their aim is to make it un attractive for private motorists to drive within the congestion zone. This is achieved by setting traffic light phasing and timings to give priority to bus lanes etc. There is draconian enforcement of yellow box junctions making drivers very nervous about entering them. Some of these junctions are over 50m long and are normally chocked by buses, especially the bendy ones, which somehow are imune to prosecution. I travelled up Regent Street by bus last week and it would have been quicker to walk, the majority of the traffic being buses.
Ken does have one advantage over most other towns and cities and that is that often people have no choice but to go there. Wait until the zone is extended westward to Earls Court next February and then see what happens.
If charging were introduced to my local town then it would be boycotted. They are already making a loss on car parking since raising prices and heavy enforcement. They introduced parking on beach roads in the winter even Christmas day. There used to be loads of cars with hundreds of people walking along the beach. Now the majority of parking bays are deserted and it costs more to empty the meters and enforce the regulations than they take as income.
This is because Red Ken has appointed anti car people to high position in Transport for London. Their aim is to make it un attractive for private motorists to drive within the congestion zone. This is achieved by setting traffic light phasing and timings to give priority to bus lanes etc. There is draconian enforcement of yellow box junctions making drivers very nervous about entering them. Some of these junctions are over 50m long and are normally chocked by buses, especially the bendy ones, which somehow are imune to prosecution. I travelled up Regent Street by bus last week and it would have been quicker to walk, the majority of the traffic being buses.
Ken does have one advantage over most other towns and cities and that is that often people have no choice but to go there. Wait until the zone is extended westward to Earls Court next February and then see what happens.
If charging were introduced to my local town then it would be boycotted. They are already making a loss on car parking since raising prices and heavy enforcement. They introduced parking on beach roads in the winter even Christmas day. There used to be loads of cars with hundreds of people walking along the beach. Now the majority of parking bays are deserted and it costs more to empty the meters and enforce the regulations than they take as income.
When cornerred with the facts of the issue - the Anti's usually say that they feel "intimidated" by 4x4's.Why do you anti 4x4 people do what you do? So many non 4x4 cars will be affected by Ken's tax and are just if not more polluting. Go here to see just how many there are http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vedSearch.asp.
Both (one on order)of my 4x4s are not listed in Band G. There isn't any logic to your argument or your actions.
So what is it? What exactly are you against? Why on a regular basis does my LPG Discovery get vandalised?
So we presumably have to suffer because of their self image problem!
Bizarre are they not?
I wouldn't say that the writing's on the wall for 4x4's but the writing is on the wall for road pricing.
Charging us for using different types of roads at different times of day seems to be flavour of the month.
For instance using the M6 at peak time would be a whole lot more expensive than using a quiet rural road at non peak time.
This will force all of us to change our driving habits, for instance the M6 will be quieter at rush hour and all the quiet rural roads will be full to bursting.
I wonder if we will still be paying road tax??????????
Charging us for using different types of roads at different times of day seems to be flavour of the month.
For instance using the M6 at peak time would be a whole lot more expensive than using a quiet rural road at non peak time.
This will force all of us to change our driving habits, for instance the M6 will be quieter at rush hour and all the quiet rural roads will be full to bursting.
I wonder if we will still be paying road tax??????????
Roy, would you trust this government to introduce a simple, fair and balanced system of any sort? Anything that Gordon Brown has a hand in is complicated - we have the most complicated tax system in the world.I wouldn't say that the writing's on the wall for 4x4's but the writing is on the wall for road pricing.
Charging us for using different types of roads at different times of day seems to be flavour of the month.
For instance using the M6 at peak time would be a whole lot more expensive than using a quiet rural road at non peak time.
This will force all of us to change our driving habits, for instance the M6 will be quieter at rush hour and all the quiet rural roads will be full to bursting.
I wonder if we will still be paying road tax??????????
Having the idea is a lot different from implementing it in every vehicle nation wide. Can you imagine the problems when you get a bill for travelling on the M42 in rush hour but the vehicle was actually in Cornwall at the time. Who and how are these disputes going to be sorted out?
My bet is that you will be able to buy a gizmo on ebay that will make your car invisible to the GPS systems monitoring the vehicle.
G
Guest
Just draw your own conclusions on some of the following.
Gordon Brown has FLOWN to Iraq to see the mess for himself when anyone on the street could have told him he would be seeing a mess before him and his friends sent the forces in!
No worries about global warning hopping on another plane then!
No concerns over the GREEN cost of supporting forces thousands of miles from home and any way his mate Tony is FLYING to Pakistan following on from Prince Numpty and Wifes fiasco but no doubt he will use public transport to and from the Airport and the Pakistan reception party will meet him in a fleet of eco friendly fifty - sixty to the gallon VW Polo's or a few A class's.
Of course only hours after funding cuts for Altzheimers medication and a couple of days after the new high unemployment figures he has gone with a gift of an extra
Gordon Brown has FLOWN to Iraq to see the mess for himself when anyone on the street could have told him he would be seeing a mess before him and his friends sent the forces in!
No worries about global warning hopping on another plane then!
No concerns over the GREEN cost of supporting forces thousands of miles from home and any way his mate Tony is FLYING to Pakistan following on from Prince Numpty and Wifes fiasco but no doubt he will use public transport to and from the Airport and the Pakistan reception party will meet him in a fleet of eco friendly fifty - sixty to the gallon VW Polo's or a few A class's.
Of course only hours after funding cuts for Altzheimers medication and a couple of days after the new high unemployment figures he has gone with a gift of an extra
As I see it we have 4 choices
1) Accept that this government was elected fairly and represent the majority opinion.
2) Decide that this government is out of touch with the electorate and vote for a different party next time.
3) Decide that all current political parties are out of touch and form a party of your own, with like minded souls.
4) Get a life - what's the point of whingeing on about politicians on a forum like this?
1) Accept that this government was elected fairly and represent the majority opinion.
2) Decide that this government is out of touch with the electorate and vote for a different party next time.
3) Decide that all current political parties are out of touch and form a party of your own, with like minded souls.
4) Get a life - what's the point of whingeing on about politicians on a forum like this?
G
Guest
1. % of the vote that Labour got does not give the clear mandate they profess to have had so they do not represent majority opinion with less than 50 % of votes placed and with no where near those eligble to vote doing so.
2. That's an option for you, I'm British but do not have vote.
3. Caravan 4 x 4 Alliance sounds good to me ;-)
4. If people do not express concerns about politicians on forums like these thay may not be able to enjoy the life choices they want.
If you want to make your own life style choices whinge! or the b@@@@@@ will just roll you over.
2. That's an option for you, I'm British but do not have vote.
3. Caravan 4 x 4 Alliance sounds good to me ;-)
4. If people do not express concerns about politicians on forums like these thay may not be able to enjoy the life choices they want.
If you want to make your own life style choices whinge! or the b@@@@@@ will just roll you over.
G
Guest
Roger.
I don't live in the UK I only visit!
They don't roll me over friend as they tried it once many years ago.
But I feel sorry for those that have to put up with UK PLC.
I don't live in the UK I only visit!
They don't roll me over friend as they tried it once many years ago.
But I feel sorry for those that have to put up with UK PLC.
I met with a client who now lives in Gers France - he was in the UK so we took the chance to have a meeting.
We talked about fuel prices and he agreed that costs were now similar in France to the UK - but he said that this was only because in France they scrapped the annual Road Tax fee and collect the tax via extra duty on the fuel.
Based on our current prices he stated that Diesel in France was about 85% of the UK price and petrol in France about 90% - then he laughed and said that we in the UK have to pay road tax as well!
I am kind of interested in this because he said that many Brits living abroad or with second homes abroad use cars registered in France. So what if I register my "Ken Livingstone hate object" in France but drive it in the UK. He took his classic MGB out to France and now enjoys being able to bring it back to the UK and quite legally drive it in the UK under French documentation.
Does this mean I can circumvent the archaic and discriminatory rules? As EU citizens I would suggest that we should be able to do this. Many road haulage firms in the South use EU registered vehicles rather than UK registered ones.
The EU courts are deciding on our ability to buy alcohol and cigarettes in EU member states. The issue being that the law states that the tax applies in the country of purchase NOT the country of consumption.
If it goes against the UK interpretation - having an EU registered car could be interesting!!!
We talked about fuel prices and he agreed that costs were now similar in France to the UK - but he said that this was only because in France they scrapped the annual Road Tax fee and collect the tax via extra duty on the fuel.
Based on our current prices he stated that Diesel in France was about 85% of the UK price and petrol in France about 90% - then he laughed and said that we in the UK have to pay road tax as well!
I am kind of interested in this because he said that many Brits living abroad or with second homes abroad use cars registered in France. So what if I register my "Ken Livingstone hate object" in France but drive it in the UK. He took his classic MGB out to France and now enjoys being able to bring it back to the UK and quite legally drive it in the UK under French documentation.
Does this mean I can circumvent the archaic and discriminatory rules? As EU citizens I would suggest that we should be able to do this. Many road haulage firms in the South use EU registered vehicles rather than UK registered ones.
The EU courts are deciding on our ability to buy alcohol and cigarettes in EU member states. The issue being that the law states that the tax applies in the country of purchase NOT the country of consumption.
If it goes against the UK interpretation - having an EU registered car could be interesting!!!
G
Guest
Your problem is likely to be insurance Clive and actually being here in the UK for 40 plus weeks a year.
Haulage companies registering vehicles in Europe often have an office of convenience there and have lorries coming in and out of the country all the time they are not working and living here 40 plus weeks a year as I guess you would.
I have Brit friends who live near Le Touquet who tried running a business in the UK but ran into insurance problems with work vehicles.
Haulage companies registering vehicles in Europe often have an office of convenience there and have lorries coming in and out of the country all the time they are not working and living here 40 plus weeks a year as I guess you would.
I have Brit friends who live near Le Touquet who tried running a business in the UK but ran into insurance problems with work vehicles.
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