Now here's a pretty pickle - who'll buy a 4x4 now??

[CliveV]

Interesting euro - I will get our guy that deals with the General Insurance for us to have a look at it.

If there is a market I can approach Lloyds direct.

If you can insure for alien abduction (you can!) I am sure we can sort something out. It may not be a standard policy but my cover only costs me

 

[MONKEY1]

Presumably you would be subject to having the French equivalent of an MOT bit it could be a good excurse to restock the cellar and get a tank full of cheap fuel. I surprised Clive you haven't domiciled your LR in The channel Island's and that way you could visit your cash as well !!

 

[CliveV]

You need to be a millionaire to be able to be a Jersey Resident and I am not there yet!

But my offshore funds and those of my clients are in the main in Dublin and Luxemburg - far better investor protection than the UK dependent states (IoM, Jersey & Gurnsey) It is a surprise to many but you are FAR FAR better off using an EU International Finance Centre rather than any one of the UK Dependent States.

The three UK Dependent States are not members of the EU and so the far better investor protection laws of the EU (including the UK) do not apply.

 

[MONKEY1]

Clive,

Now you're talking. Luxembourg land of the cheap diesel. They know a good thing when they see it !!

 

[giovanni_5060838]

I have been a avid fan of the diesel engine eversince they

started fitting a turbo to it.

In my younger days loved to try to get more power out of them

cheaply.

clives v statement about using lpg in diesels is a valid one

on cost grounds and actually bhp as you can get a 10/12%

increase in power!

As for the lower emmission! Not totally true, you NOX will

indeed be lower, but your CO will be higher {dieselcar dec 97}

There are two links to lpg sites on this thread the 2nd one

misses this fact.

But if you read the first link, you will see that for a car/petrol they do mention how it does improve emmisions/CO.

Yet on the lorry page (diesel) this paragraph is NOT included.

WHY? Well contry to what SOME would have you believe, LPG does

produce more CO than diesels. So if you run a diesel engine with

say a 70/30 mix of diesel to lpg, then your CO will be higher

than standard... not much but higher.

Now back when i ran my FIAT marea on this mix I think the

reading went from 164 or something to 176.. cannot recall for sure, and this was a 98 model some 4 years ago.

Now we have all these new cartax rules and emmission, i would be

interested to know if/how upping your co rating could in theory

effect your cars mot or tax grouping.....

 

[johno1]

Global warming is with us and that is a fact, we have all got our part to play in combating it, we cannot just sit back and let it happen.

I am not going to start quoting facts and figures, just google "global warming" and read about what is going on right under our noses, do not bury your heads in the sand.

If by taxation, congestion charges or by whatever means we can reduce 4x4 ownership in this country it has got to be a good thing

instead of picking on 4x4's why dont you get on to the south american governments that allow the amazon rain forests to be cut down for farm land. every school child knows that trees take co2 out of the air and give out oxygen!!!

 

[Colinn]

TIMES FRONT PAGE HEADLINE DECEMBER 6 2007:

SALES OF 4x4s SLUMP

GREEN ONSLAUGHT HITS MARKET FOR GAS GUZZLERS

COLLAPSE IN THE VALUE OF SECOND HAND VEHICLES

As I said when I started this string a few weeks ago: Now here's a pretty pickle - who'll buy a 4x4 now?

Ummh............

 

[Colinn]

TIMES FRONT PAGE HEADLINE DECEMBER 6 2007:

SALES OF 4x4s SLUMP

GREEN ONSLAUGHT HITS MARKET FOR GAS GUZZLERS

COLLAPSE IN THE VALUE OF SECOND HAND VEHICLES

As I said when I started this string a few weeks ago: Now here's a pretty pickle - who'll buy a 4x4 now?

Ummh............

sorry, 2006...!

 

[Val & Frank]

Read a little more Colinn

Sales of 4x4 off-road vehicles - dubbed "Chelsea tractors" - have slumped this year.

Land Rover has seen sales for the first 11 months of 2006 dip 2.2%, with numbers falling from 3,262 in November 2006 to 3,032 last month.

Overall 4x4 figures due to be released later by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders are expected to show a 15% drop in November 2006 and a 6% fall for the year so far compared with January-November 2006.

The figures come as Chancellor Gordon Brown prepares to deliver his Pre-Budget Report, which is expected to include a rise in fuel duty that will particularly hit 4x4 owners.

The dip in off-road vehicle sales has come during a year when the so-called "gas guzzlers" have faced mounting assaults from politicians and environmentalists.

In March, Mr Brown brought in a

 

[CliveV]

Colinn - the data used is relatively old in that it has been published a week or so ago.

The true facts are very different to that portrayed by the "Guadianistas", "Independigestias" et al.

All car sales are down 15%. In contrast 4x4 sales are only down about 4%.

This means that the market share of 4x4's has actually increased!

Journalists are as trustworthy as politicians.

Both are so full of **it that their eyes are brown.

 

[354]

Is it not about time the biased anti 4x4 brigade stopping sprouting so much parc (may have typed that in reverse). If we are to tackle polution then lets direct our efforts towards trhe biggest culprits not the easiest touch. I wonder how many of the so called anti,s use air transport and have gas heaters on their patios? Get of my back and direct your efforts to where it is needed.

 

[RogerL]

Air fuel duty doubled, road fuel duty up by just 1.25p/litre.

Is everyone happy, now?

 

[sparkes]

 

[Colinn]

I don't believe everything I read in the newspapers Clive, but in this case I really think you are shooting the messenger...

The figures will be from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders themselves (out tomorrow, not last week), but perhaps you know better than they do with your own figure of 4% down.

And although the likes of Land Rover can point to sales being up for the year as a whole, this may be true for the full year. (We all know that things were going very well until November, nothing surprising there) These new figures compare the November just past with the November of last year - far more telling. The big green onslaught only really got serious when Ken and Richmond waded in with really punitive threats last month. Just watch the figures for the next few months!

You see Clive, I am not arguing that we should all get rid of 4x4s - I'm arguing that, whatever the figures and arguments, people will be queuing up to offload them at the slightest hint of a) higher costs to keep them, and b) fear everybody else will sell, causing glut, causing massive devaluation.

Motorists are a fickle lot - look how they swarm to petrol stations at the slightest hint of a Budget rise or a strike!

All I'm saying is that these things tend to be self-fulfilling. The scare stories build up and steadily the pressure - in this case against owning a 4x4 - becomes unstoppable.

The writing is on the wall...

 

[sparkes]

Colinn

In answer to your question about who will buy a 4x4? All of us who need them will. Who will pay the extra? Well that will be you lot when you pay for the services we provide at extra cost due to the increase in the cost for us to do our business

Sorry, but thats the bottom line. I need a 4x4 to tow my van of 1800KG and how I pay for that is to charge the government for my services. This will (as usual) be increased with my costs now and they will have to pay more. Hense, you (and me) as tax payers will be paying for it. So, thanks for the contribution, I will think of you as I sign for the new D3 early next year!

 

[RogerL]

Colinn

In answer to your question about who will buy a 4x4? All of us who need them will. Who will pay the extra? Well that will be you lot when you pay for the services we provide at extra cost due to the increase in the cost for us to do our business

Sorry, but thats the bottom line. I need a 4x4 to tow my van of 1800KG and how I pay for that is to charge the government for my services. This will (as usual) be increased with my costs now and they will have to pay more. Hense, you (and me) as tax payers will be paying for it. So, thanks for the contribution, I will think of you as I sign for the new D3 early next year!

Sparkes (Steve) - "I need my 4x4 to tow my van of 1800kg"

But you don't NEED an 1800kg van, you just choose to.

 

[sparkes]

Sparkes (Steve) - "I need my 4x4 to tow my van of 1800kg"

But you don't NEED an 1800kg van, you just choose to.

I don't need a 4 debroom house, a large TV or 3 toilets. But that is what I want so I bill my customers to pay for them. Thats the way it is.

I suppose, no one needs a caravan. They could always use a tent! But my Van was selected based on my needs due to mobility restriction. So, more than most, I do need it if I want to continue to caravan

 

[Colinn]

Colinn

In answer to your question about who will buy a 4x4? All of us who need them will. Who will pay the extra? Well that will be you lot when you pay for the services we provide at extra cost due to the increase in the cost for us to do our business

Sorry, but thats the bottom line. I need a 4x4 to tow my van of 1800KG and how I pay for that is to charge the government for my services. This will (as usual) be increased with my costs now and they will have to pay more. Hense, you (and me) as tax payers will be paying for it. So, thanks for the contribution, I will think of you as I sign for the new D3 early next year!

Nice try, but the supply/demand figures don't add up. I think it's generally accepted that far and away the majority of people (ie, mums on school run, etc) don't actually need a big car. These are the people who'll abandon them, collapsing the market - and indeed the minority like you, who really do need them, will be laughing because they'll be dirt cheap! So your costs will actually be down - it won't be necessary to pass on any increased costs to us customers, you'll be able to pass on your saving instead, won't you?

 

[sparkes]

Nice try, but the supply/demand figures don't add up. I think it's generally accepted that far and away the majority of people (ie, mums on school run, etc) don't actually need a big car. These are the people who'll abandon them, collapsing the market - and indeed the minority like you, who really do need them, will be laughing because they'll be dirt cheap! So your costs will actually be down - it won't be necessary to pass on any increased costs to us customers, you'll be able to pass on your saving instead, won't you?

You are right, I don't need to pass on the higher costs. BUT I will and I will enjoy the fact that all those nice anti 4x4 bods will be helping me afford a higher spec than I would have been able to afford. Thats the bit of supply and demand that stacks up for me!

 

[RogerL]

Sparkes (Steve) - If you don't need a 4 bedroomed house or a 1800kg caravan, you don't NEED a 4x4. Stop trying to justify your excesses.

 

[sparkes]

Sorry?

1: You have no idea of what I need or do not need

2: You have no idea that my medical restriction require that I have a certain amount of room to move around because I am unable to turn on the spot etc

3: You seem to think you have the right to tell people what they do or do not need. WHAN DID YOU JOIN THE MP's??

If you are so all knowing, maybe you can find me a solution that cost me 30k to solve earlier this year. Provide my specialists with a better solution for my needs or stop having a go at me. I am offended you think you know enough to state what I do or do not need.

NOW GO AND GET A LIFE!

 

[BrianStAlbans]

Doesn't seem to bother the industry with Chevy, Vauxhall, Peugeot and Citroen all launching new 4x4's

 

[MalcolmL]

Nice try, but the supply/demand figures don't add up. I think it's generally accepted that far and away the majority of people (ie, mums on school run, etc) don't actually need a big car. These are the people who'll abandon them, collapsing the market - and indeed the minority like you, who really do need them, will be laughing because they'll be dirt cheap! So your costs will actually be down - it won't be necessary to pass on any increased costs to us customers, you'll be able to pass on your saving instead, won't you?

There seems to be an assumption that the wife on the school run is using a 4*4 when a small Ford Fiesta or Ka might do instead but I suspect that the 4*4 is the main family vehicle and that the husband commutes to the station in a small, cheap car which will be left there all day. Would you choose to leave an expensive car, of whatever form of traction, in a station car park.

As others have said, get a life and accept that people will make whatever choice they believe suits them best. You may not agree with it but it really has nothing to do with you!

Malcolm

 

[Wendy-Norfolk]

The fact that Gordon has raised duty on fuel will not deter us from using, or buying another 4x4.

Because we live in a rural area, and tow a heavy caravan, 1900k, and have no need for a second car as my workplace is 300m away, entitles us to have a 4x4, and why shouldn't we?

For all you whinging antis, how many of you are two and three car families?!!

 

[CliveV]

AND THERE WE HAVE IT!

An honest reply from RogerL at last!

In RogerL's opinion - Steve Sparkes "does not need a 4x4".

That "holier than thou" attitude is what drives the anti's - not the facts that how many drive wheels are involved has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the ecological impact of the car.

It just boils down to them thinking that their opinion is more valuable than others.

Hitler thought the same way.