Overturned Carvans?!

[JohnI.Stephen]

On the BBC news today and yesterday, we saw examples of high wind damage, including one (or more) overturned caravans. This got me thinking because last week, in the Fns it was VERY windy and my wife was awoken in the middle of the night and genuinely thought that we might be blown over! I assured her that, with the 4 steadies down, we had a solid base and any pressure from a gust would merely place pressure on the respective steadies which were solid on the ground.

But was I right? Could a gust blow over a properly pitched caravan? Have you ever experienced this?

 

[GeorgeB]

John,

In theory your logic sounds good, but..............it,s not quite true, it is possible to be blown over! However, it would depend on various variables, such as;

1. The surface area of the side of the caravan the wind is hitting.

2. The angle of attack of the wind (what angle the wind actually hits the caravan).

3. The wind strength.

Get all 3 right(or should that be wrong?)then over she goes, irrespective of the corner steadies being down, they would just bend if the pressure induced weight exceeded their design capacity.

Way back in 1900 & frozen to death, we were staying at Peran Sands in cornwall, in our then Robin 4 berth, sited at the top of the cliff, in the teath of a gale, the caravan was rocking so much, that in the middle of the night, during the gale, I hitched up the tow car, lifted the steadies just enough to clear the ground and then turned the whole unit around to face into the wind, wound down the steadies, left the tow car attached.

My reasoning was to present as small as possible area to the wind & also if it was designed to be towed at 60mph then there should also be a safety margin built in, say 25% so it should remain safe up to about 75mph. Result a safe, but sleepless, night, even sheltered a couple who's tent had blown down.

Ever since then, if sited in an exposed place, I always try to put the front of the van into where the prevailing winds are coming from (just look at the way the trees are bent over)& be prepared, if necessary, to take down the awning & to reposition the van.

Hope I haven't scared you too much!

GeorgeB

 

[Guest]

I've not been in a Van that was blown over but have seen ones that have been.

Many years ago when the Fastnet race disaster went down we saw caravans and camper vans pitched in Cornwall that had been blown over.

As mentioned on here in "towing, driving and safety" we've seen two large caravans blown over on the M62 just due to the wind.

In Wales we saw the remains of static caravans that were blown over.

At a site in Kerry I had to move the car in the night to protect the van and a family in a smaller van had the kids fall from their beds as the van lifted and then crashed back down at 4 in the morning damaging the stays. I towed the guys van to the side of ours to protect it and then we parked back to back to protect my van from the wind. Some other people had to abandon their tents and a Conway parked behind a wall and hedge had all its top frame twisted.

At another Irish site only a few touring Caravans are able to have a sea view, as they get the wind protection of a stone wall. The sires statics are all anchored to the ground by numerous steel cables as they were blown over in the past. Other tourers are parked and protected at one side by the statics with ten year old trees and bushes along another side of the touring pitches in a bid to filter the strong winds that can hit the site. Seasonal pitch owners who went against the managements advice and left Awnings on their vans had damaged vans and no Awning, a reception note asked owners to reclaim waste containers and Aquarolls and bits that had been left under caravans.

 

[Guest]

John,

In theory your logic sounds good, but..............it,s not quite true, it is possible to be blown over! However, it would depend on various variables, such as;

1. The surface area of the side of the caravan the wind is hitting.

2. The angle of attack of the wind (what angle the wind actually hits the caravan).

3. The wind strength.

Get all 3 right(or should that be wrong?)then over she goes, irrespective of the corner steadies being down, they would just bend if the pressure induced weight exceeded their design capacity.

Way back in 1900 & frozen to death, we were staying at Peran Sands in cornwall, in our then Robin 4 berth, sited at the top of the cliff, in the teath of a gale, the caravan was rocking so much, that in the middle of the night, during the gale, I hitched up the tow car, lifted the steadies just enough to clear the ground and then turned the whole unit around to face into the wind, wound down the steadies, left the tow car attached.

My reasoning was to present as small as possible area to the wind & also if it was designed to be towed at 60mph then there should also be a safety margin built in, say 25% so it should remain safe up to about 75mph. Result a safe, but sleepless, night, even sheltered a couple who's tent had blown down.

Ever since then, if sited in an exposed place, I always try to put the front of the van into where the prevailing winds are coming from (just look at the way the trees are bent over)& be prepared, if necessary, to take down the awning & to reposition the van.

Hope I haven't scared you too much!

GeorgeB

1900. You must be getting on a bit George ;-)

 

[Mike_5041040]

Hi John,

I didn't see the report on T.V but I think I heard the tail end of a radio report on the incident.

I may be wrong, but was it not a freak localised mini tornado / hurricane, similar to the one that hit Birmingham earlier this year ?

They reported that house roofs were taken off along with chimney breasts and caravans over turned !

If that was then case, then although there is nothing we can do to protect our caravans, we can console ourselves with the fact that these events are extremely rare ( I hope ! )......but who knows with global warming & changing weather patterns !!!!!!!!!

Regards,

Mike.

 

[Guest]

George's post reminded me of a stay at a small site near Perranporth. "Tollgate" or something like that.

Set back from the coast, but we had to do the same. Van face on to the wind and Car reversed up to the A frame from the side to protect the awning. We had My Brother and sister in-law sleeping in it!

 

[RickyLionheart]

Many years ago on a site in Scotland I saw a caravan blown side ways off a hard standing pitch.

The only thing that stopped it being blown even further were the corner steadies digging into the grass

 

[RogerL]

John - Corner steadies won't help at all! Although high winds put a lot of pressure on the side of a caravan, it's usually the wind getting underneath and lifting the caravan off it's wheels that turns it over.

Ground anchors are available and recommended for statics and seasonals but not usually used for tourers.

During gale force winds we've had our caravan lifted off it's steadies at Scourie, despite using the car as a windbreak.

Mini-tornados are very exceptional, they'll even wreck conventional houses, but are always very localised.

 

[Guest]

Not wanting to inflame anything, but we've caravanned all year round and in some terrible weather.

Moving from a car to an estate car I found towing better in high winds as the estate back end closed the gap between car and van and also ofered more as a wind break when needed. Since toing with a "larger" style of vehicle. Towing in very strong winds is better as the car cuts a bigger profile through head winds for the van to follow through even with modern streamlined front ends, and the higher roof is better when used as a wind break.

 

[JohnI.Stephen]

Some useful advice indeed; quite sobering though ....Need to psoition the caravan correctly if theer is the chance of high winds; and yes, poition teh car to act as a furthr obstacle. Agreed that a tornado will do what it witll do and that we really cannot protect ourselves from them.

Thanks

John

 

[MalcolmL]

The 'vans which take winter seasonal pitches at Braemar always use ground anchors. And after a heavy storm, I saw a caravan on its side in a garden but I don't know if the steadies were down or not.

Malcolm

 

[GeorgeB]

1900. You must be getting on a bit George ;-)

Euro,

Regarding my age, the only thing I'll admit to is that I'm approaching 50, but I won't admit from which side!!!!

Growing old is compulsary, growing up isn't!

GeorgeB

 

[Janey1]

Look here http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006550455,00.html

This was in yesterday's Sun newspaper and shows just what can happen in a severe storm. Notice the corner steadies. Frightening !!

 

[Countrylass]

Malcolm is right, we've had a winter pitch at The Invercauld, Braemar for a few years now and have always used ground anchors.

When we bought our first carvan fron Greenbank Sales in Fraserburgh we commented to the salesman on the long lines of caravans for sale which were all tied down. He said that in strong gusts it could be like a row of dominos toppling if they were not.

A

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Janey ref Sun article.

The corner steadies don't look damaged to me - or are you commenting on the fact that they were down?.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John,

Back to your original posting, it is perfectly possible for a caravan to be overturned by the wind, providing it is strong enough. The use of the steadies will generally reduce the likleyhood of the caravan overturning, but if the wind is strong enough then it will eventually turn.

As soon as the side starts to lift the wind find better access to the underside and provides iincreasing lift to the process.

It is simple to demonstrate teh basic principle, take a cardboard box (a shoe box is ideal), Add three little blu-tack blobs to the bottom of the box To simulate the jockey and main wheels. Dont forget that the main wheels are not right at the edge of a caravan but slightly inset. Put the box on a carpet and push at the 'windward' side. The box will turn over, but note that it is likely to twist and lift the rear corner first beacause of the jockey wheel.

Now to simulate the steadies, cellotape some matchsticks to the corners of the box so the box continues to sit on the 'wheels' and the steadies, repeat the push, again the box will turn but you might detect it requires slightly more effort to do it and it lifts squarly

Now lets repeat the test on a 'hardstanding' but using a hard surface rather than a carpet. On the wheel alone, the result will be similar to the carpet,it will tip becuase the wheels will grip the surface, but with the steadies, the box will probably slide rather than tip because of the hardness of the steadies not compling to the surface and actually slipping.

In rough weather, pointing the caravan nose or tail into the prevailing wind will help and the application of ground anchors or substantial guy ropes would be advisable. Also a wind break around the windward side of the van would break the air flow, and might actually generate a slight negative pressure under the van helping to keep it on the ground.

 

[MikeP]

John, I think you need to get out more and stop watching Blue Peter.

 

[JohnI.Stephen]

Hello John L; I have to agree with Mike P's comment; I was thinking that this was like a Blue Peter project !! Anyay, your point is well made (and taken) and I shall henceforth be much more wary of the prevailing wind. Alntough, from my Geography days I recall that whilst the prevailing wind is important, this may not be the direction of the strongest wind (rats, I cannot remember how this is termed).

cheers

John

 

[ProfJohnL]

Long Live Blue Peter!

 

[NorfolkMike]

For the nurotics!! the secret is to be insured and to keep taking the tablets.

ttfn

 

[chelsea1]

we returned yesterday from a horrendous weekend on Dartmoor.

Saturday night/sunday morning we were in 100mph winds. I have never heard anything like it and didnt realise the wind could be so loud !! didnt get a wink of sleep all night and hubby was out battling with the awning at 2am in the morning, without luck as the awning is now damaged (not sure if can be repaired)

There were other caravanner's on site (we were all up! lights on through the night) and even 2 poor dutch chaps in tents!

the caravan withstood (it did move though) during the heavy gusts which went on all night. thank god the 2 campers were still there in the morning. And we made it home safely.

We've been pitched up in 60 mph winds before and everything including the awning was fine. but this weekend was very scarey!

 

[RichardS1]

Also out this weekend even though it was quite a storm on Saturday night we did not have it as bad as the South West up here in the North East. Remembered reading this thread and used the car as a windbreak and managed to get a decent nights sleep.

 

[Wendy-Norfolk]

We were also out at the weekend.

Although the weather was no where as bad as in the SW, we took the precaution of siting the front of the caravan into the wind.

We had a good night, the caravan didn't hardly move on the suspension, all in all, not an unpleasant weekend.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

We were at Bath Marina which is relatively sheltered but it did come in quite hard early hours of Sunday and kept lots of people awake.

Came home to about 1/3 (14-16" wide at the bottom of the broken limb) of a large tree down in the back garden though!

Luckily it only wiped out the rotary airer - Nanas *** chair is still intact.

Something to do this weekend which does not involve a caravan!

 

[Guest]

I saw the weekend weather forecasts and there was no way I would have been caravanning on Dartmoor with an Awning up.

It's no wonder some don't want to insure them.