Straw Poll.

[Lord Braykewynde]

1. 4x4 should be kept to www.carpentry.com as should any

discussions on the sizes of wood.

2. dogs once debated bring the worse out in people and get

their hackles up.

3. windbreaks should not be discussed in a thread topic such

as this.

4. alcalorics don pist in forrms liiike thizun.

5. find another thread if you need to boast about the size

of your outfit, not a mixed forum :O)

 

[Matthew_5040954]

Light touch paper and retire to a safe distance.

First the comment about children are the product of man and woman, so I wonder why hetrosexual couples adopt? On this basis if it's because they can't have children, then there must be something wrong with them and therefore should they really be allowed to adopt?

Secondly, with the number of law suits the RC are defending regarding child abuse, I'd feel safer my daughter be adopted by a gay couple that a RC priest.

Thirdly, at this rate next we'll be supporting the re-introduction of the Magdalene homes, what short memories we have of the RC church and there methods of dealing with social issues

Finally, how many who have commented on here, really understand the issues of children in care, why they are there, what it's like in care and what there needs are. Just because you are a man and woman and married, doesn't guarantee they'll be good parents. I would rather have 1 or 2 people who are there for me for the future, when the alternative is a care home with 1 ever changing adult to at least 5 children.

Remember bigotry comes from ignorance

 

[cris_408518]

Well Matthew there are plenty of Police, Teachers, Nurses, Vicars, Politicians and others I wouldn't want kids adopted by. That was not the question!

There are bad people in every walk of life including the RC Church, but then as you mentioned that issue.

Do remember that whilst you mention ignorance and bigotry it would be somewhat ignorant to forget that many problems in Europe,USA and Australia have been attributed to Gay priests in the RC Church !

Two members of our imediate family were adopted by parents in their late 40's many years ago. That would not happen now as age issues would prevent it. Age issues prevent adoptions along with money issues, yet some seem to think that there will be no issues for children adopted by gay couples.

There are a lot of needy children in the UK and a variety of organistions crying out for help with Children.

No doubts local scools, youth groups, play schemes, Boys Brigade and the Scouts and Guides would welcome with open arms the interest from Gay Couples withe maternal instincts caring and setting good examples and acting as role models for the children.

No doubt parents would flock to have their children cared for, it would be rather bigoted just to expect Gar Couples just to adopt when there is a whole raft of childs needs they could address.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

cris in two previous posts I have mentioned the child abuse within the Catholic church. I left it to people to hopefully make their own minds about what I was trying to say and strangely why it was only boys that were sexually abused. The reason I left it for others to make up their own minds was because of the fear of again being labelled by Robert as homophobic. I found the following which may be of interest ...

Patricia McKeever, who edits the Catholic Truth newsletter, told the Glasgow-based paper The Sunday Herald: "The key objective behind naming homosexual priests and bishops is to raise awareness of the problem within the Scottish Church, ultimately to ensure the safety of others in the Church. Not just the physical safety of children, important though that is, but also the spiritual safety of people and congregations entrusted to the care of a homosexual priest or bishop."

I also read the following ....

Gay priests cited in abuse of boys

By Julia Duin

THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Eighty-one percent of sex crimes committed against children by Roman Catholic priests during the past 52 years were homosexual men preying on boys, according to a comprehensive study released yesterday on the church's sex abuse crisis.

The John Jay study was commissioned 20 months ago by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) in response to hundreds of sex-abuse accusations that were made in nearly every U.S. Catholic diocese. It covered the years from 1950 to 2002 and found 10,667 cases of abuse.

 

[Oldfogey]

There seems to be an assumption here that the choice is between adoption by a hetero couple or a gay couple.

Given the drastic shortage of potential adopters, particularly for older and more "challenging" children, the choice is far more likely to be between any form of adoption or a children's home.

The record of children's homes at bring up kids is terrible - though admittedly they are left with the worst cases - and they have also seen some bad cases of abuse.

So which is better? A children's home, with all it's many faults and risks, or a gay couple who have gone to a lot of trouble and got past a lot of opposition to want to give a child a good home?

I know which looks a better bet to me.

I also note that the Catholic agencies are happy to place a child with a single gay parent, but not a gay couple. Which sounds really stupid, as you would then have no opportunity to assess any partner they might end up with.

 

[Matthew_5040954]

Hi Cris

I appreciate your comments but feel you need correcting on several points:

1. People who abuse children are not always gay

2. My wife and I adopted our daughter and we are in our mid 40's age; the only affects age has on adoption is consider the losses these children have already experienced in their lives and because adopters are legally responsible for the child(ren) until they are 18, the old the parents are the high the risk of the child encountering further losses (believe me loss IS a big issue with adopted children more then the sexual preference of the parent)

3. You don't need to be wealthy to adopt, financial support is available

The truth is that there are bigger and more important issues to consider when assessing people who wish to adopt; the process you go through is long and detailed you have to look at why you want to adopt, what life experiences you have, police check etc, most children who are in care are there because they have experienced great trauma in their life, in a lot of cases more then most adults experience in their whole life and to say they can't have a better and as normal as possible life just because the adopters are gay is a pathetic and non-existent.

 

[cris_408518]

Hi Cris

I appreciate your comments but feel you need correcting on several points:

1. People who abuse children are not always gay

2. My wife and I adopted our daughter and we are in our mid 40's age; the only affects age has on adoption is consider the losses these children have already experienced in their lives and because adopters are legally responsible for the child(ren) until they are 18, the old the parents are the high the risk of the child encountering further losses (believe me loss IS a big issue with adopted children more then the sexual preference of the parent)

3. You don't need to be wealthy to adopt, financial support is available

The truth is that there are bigger and more important issues to consider when assessing people who wish to adopt; the process you go through is long and detailed you have to look at why you want to adopt, what life experiences you have, police check etc, most children who are in care are there because they have experienced great trauma in their life, in a lot of cases more then most adults experience in their whole life and to say they can't have a better and as normal as possible life just because the adopters are gay is a pathetic and non-existent.

Matthew. You are going off track re the original question.

My wife in her job has spent over thirty odd years dealing with a variety of social problems and problem families and a variety of abuse cases.

She herself was adopted when she was a few weeks old as was her sister and they had wonderful parents and the most loving idylic childhood, my sister in-law only recently in her late 40's traced her birth parents and had to attend the prescribed councilling sessions before doing so all though she had no issues herself.

With thirty year plus of my wifes work experiences and knowlege of social services and other agencies with children and my sister in-laws personal an work experiences and obvious contact with others their very vast and long personal and proffesional experiences and many of their colleagues experiences suggest that a stable heterosexual home wins hands down.

I would also add that I have two friends from my youth who were adopted along with a younger brother and sister, all four children were from different parents, there mum and dad moved abroad toere they were not known to be adopted children. They were told as small children but taken from the UK they had no influnces about being adopted and as by some quirke of fate they all are quite tall and dark haired like their parents no one including myself knew of their start in life until they were in there 20's.

Alison and her husband work in Childrens services in another country and Dan a Doctor in the Sates.Their proffesional experience to suggests that the proposed measures are pie in the sky theory and PC madness.