The old 85% Chestnut.

[Gafferbill]

I make no appolgises for this post,if it even gets one person to think about their mindset to motorcyclists no matter how irratable they feel my posting is, it will be worth it any slating i get.....

..........no slating from me either, in fact I agree with you.
I actually prefer the motorcyclist to overtake me and I do everything I can to assist them, usually resulting in receiving a foot thank you salute

........what I recognise from these posts is a common failure to understand how dangerous a driving situation it is when you are queuing behind a slow moving vehicle.

HOW are we supposed to know this Bill because as caravanners we would be at the front surely

"nudge, nudge, wink, wink, elbow, elbow",

(know what I mean)

nice one Colin......No I'm not that slow!!

Obviously I meant farm tractors, combine harvesters and the like at 20mph or less.
The last queue I was in was about 50 vehicles at about 10mph, turned out to be a group of cyclists.
Everybody behaved impeccably..... not always the case.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Jonny,

I didn't claim filtering or lane splitting is illegal. So if you are going to quote me please ensure you keep the quotes with relevant context.

Based on your own replies there are limits that define when filtering or lane splitting is acceptable. But as with all regulations there is an overriding responsibility to only carry out a described activity if it is safe to do so. If some thing is unsafe it is automatically illegal.

Just as the driver has a responsibility to check before committing to overtake, so does a biker. So there are times or circumstances when the filtering or lane splitting is not legal, because it would be unsafe.

We do know all drivers/bikers are not angels, and Ray has put good description of what can happen So in the context of Steve's report, we have no reliable evidence to support any conclusions about who was right or wrong.

The only value to this extension to the thread is to make all road users more aware of their responsibilities to looking out for and anticipating other road users actions.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

THINK BIKE springs to mind.

 

[ProfJohnL]

THINK BIKE springs to mind.

Its not just drivers that need to think bike
Its also bikers need to think car!

 

[JonnyG]

THINK BIKE springs to mind.

Its not just drivers that need to think bike
Its also bikers need to think car!

i thought prof Allan finished this off topic piece rather nicely. As the main problem once one takes out the over exubrance of youth on m/bikes[ although one could add youths car drivers to that] is the fact that it is mainly car drivers dont always seem to see bikes and not the other way around. one has to assume that this is indeed true and is the main problem, as even governments deem it fit to acually adopt signs that say "think bike" and until i see signs saying "think car" too! I will assume that" think bike" takes an overwhelming priority in ones mindset and really should muddling of the issue at hand be taking place.?

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

THINK BIKE springs to mind.

Its not just drivers that need to think bike
Its also bikers need to think car!

hi John, obviously not a biker then,
this is not meant to be a disparaging remark but bikers are accutely aware of the dangers other road users pose
"just ask one" favorite saying after an incident "I NEVER SAW HIM"
that statement says more than I ever could.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Colin,

Correct I'm not a motorcyclist (biker), but I was knocked off my peddle cycle by a driver emerging from a side road when I was younger, and the driver did use that 'phrase'. I am not anti-bikes but I do recognise the vulnerability of two wheeled road users.

But was this the case in the incident reported by Steve? the fact is we don't know. Therfore making the assumption that the driver was at fault creates an unsound conclusion.

I'm not stating the biker was in the wrong, but equally I'm not claiming the driver was innocent either, we simply do not know.

 

[JonnyG]

Hello Colin,

Correct I'm not a motorcyclist (biker), but I was knocked off my peddle cycle by a driver emerging from a side road when I was younger, and the driver did use that 'phrase'. I am not anti-bikes but I do recognise the vulnerability of two wheeled road users.

But was this the case in the incident reported by Steve? the fact is we don't know. Therfore making the assumption that the driver was at fault creates an unsound conclusion.

I'm not stating the biker was in the wrong, but equally I'm not claiming the driver was innocent either, we simply do not know.

hi prof, good pionts, although steves terminology "bashed" assumes the m/bike was already overtaking the car? otherwise how else was the m/bike bashed? Steve doesnt mention a car overtaking a harvester and a bike also trying to take over at the same time.he steve said que jumping, not speeding and actually one has to question why the motorist didnt see the bike from way off? as he was either overtaking a long queue of traffic or darting in and out of the quere of traffic, he should have been visable to an observant motorist at some piont proir to impact, which begs the question, why was the motorist not weary of said bike?
I agree its impossible to draw a sound conclusion, thats why "think bike" is appropriate.
surely regardless of the whom was at fault, it serves as a timely reminder that at this time of year there are more bikers out on the road and We car drivers should be aware of it more so.

 

[DaveA1]

What happened to OP The Old Chestnut

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

What happened to OP The Old Chestnut

"it got roasted"

 

[colinw1]

I've just had a text from a friend - the caravan dealer he was at - told him that the 85% rule is "old hat" and no-longer applies...
I text back for him to ask the dealer if he thought his car would pull a 6 berth twin axle. (which I know it wont as his car is a 1.6 vectra)

 

[Martin24]

Love to see a 1.6 Vectra towing mine up a hill or even worse down a hill! Some dealers are terribly irresponsible and just want the sale at any price!!

 

[Surfer]

I've just had a text from a friend - the caravan dealer he was at - told him that the 85% rule is "old hat" and no-longer applies...
I text back for him to ask the dealer if he thought his car would pull a 6 berth twin axle. (which I know it wont as his car is a 1.6 vectra)

Previously kerbweight was defined as the vehicle being totally empty etc, which was when the guideline was thought up. This has now changed with kerbweight including one person weighing in at 75kg and a 90% full tank of fuel. Hence the dealer probably quite correctly making that statement. A 6 berth caravan with a MIRO of 1435kg can be towed by a Vectra however if loaded another story. It all depends on what the dealer is trying to sell it and again it is not the dealer's responsibility to ensure that their car is a good match and legal. However the dealer should be able to offer the correct advice if asked. Always best to check with caravan club and NOT Whattowcar who can be very inaccurate with their weights.

 

[JonnyG]

I've just had a text from a friend - the caravan dealer he was at - told him that the 85% rule is "old hat" and no-longer applies...
I text back for him to ask the dealer if he thought his car would pull a 6 berth twin axle. (which I know it wont as his car is a 1.6 vectra)

Previously kerbweight was defined as the vehicle being totally empty etc, which was when the guideline was thought up. This has now changed with kerbweight including one person weighing in at 75kg and a 90% full tank of fuel. Hence the dealer probably quite correctly making that statement. A 6 berth caravan with a MIRO of 1435kg can be towed by a Vectra however if loaded another story. It all depends on what the dealer is trying to sell it and again it is not the dealer's responsibility to ensure that their car is a good match and legal. However the dealer should be able to offer the correct advice if asked. Always best to check with caravan club and NOT Whattowcar who can be very inaccurate with their weights.

Why would it be best to check with the caravan club? there database quite possibly is no better than whattowcar,although that is a dutch site and car weights can vary from country to country depending on differing specs....

 

[Lutz]

ANY database can be nothing better than a rough guideline. The kerbweight of a vehicle is specific to that vehicle alone and it would be pure coincidence that it is the same as a figure published in a brochure or a database. The ONLY definitive kerbweight is that documented as 'Mass in Service' in the V5c certificate.
Having said that, the difference in content between 'kerbweight' and 'mass in service' is hardly going to affect the weight ratio appreciably.

 

[xtrailman]

Yes i had a kerb weight of 1720kg for my 2009 xtrail from the Nissan brochure.
Then when i got a new V5c this showed the MIS as 1725kg.
So that's close enough for me, unfortunately the original V5 didn't have any MIS figure.