Very close to giving up.

[Dustydog]

Thingy unbelievable you had to suffer all this after what you had already experienced.
Your Insurers need to be very careful here. Correct me if I am wrong.
Your Insurer chose the repairer?
Your Insurer instructed and authorised the repairer to carry out the work?
Upon completion you sign a satisfaction note and the dealer submits his invoice direct to your Insurer, any excess excepted?
The latest collateral damage caused by the latest post repair water ingress is the responsibility of the dealer.

Your Insurers attitude is slightly bizarre to say the least. Not at all the quality of customer care we have come to expect from the CAMC!
You need to have confidence the dealer has carried out all the repairs and residual latest water damage correctly. I suggest you tell your insurer you want them to pay for an Independent qualified caravan engineer to examine and check the latest work.
The CRA 2015 also cover s services rendered such as this situation so you still have some very powerful rights. Do you have legal expenses cover under your caravan policy? Don’t be scared to use it.
Good luck mate. Keep us posted .

 

[Thingy]

Hi Dusty, first paragraph yes to all, and I do have the legal expenses cover.
I spoke to a solicitor today via that medium, Im fairly happy with where we are at the moment. Well, as far as progressing at least.

The acid test will come when the repair is redone and we inspect, and the inspection will be a white glove dusty finger job. So far, the company has agreed to everything I have demanded. Its whether they are as good as their word or we get more shoddy workmanship.

I agree re the insurers, they were most unhelpful and believe me, I havent finished with them yet. I pay for the highest level of insurance with CAMC and for that I expect a service.

I have blasted CRA 2015 at the workshop, including the responsibility to do the repair and the supply of service with skill and care, duty of care and consequential losses through negligence. We will see where that takes us.

I am wondering where I will stand legally if once I collect the van and sign for it, I can sign it as unchecked. That means if i go anywhere near Kev and it rains, and leaks I can go back to them. I know they have to warrant the workmanship but it stops them claiming that its something else. Certainly it will have to get properly wet before I know I can trust it.

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks for that Thingy, just a shame you are having all the aggro. Touch wood you will have a good break. Keep us posted, hope it all works out.
Signing for it. Just qualify that visually and from what the dealer says repairs have been completed. Your signature in no way can modify your Legal Rights under CRA 2015. You still have full protection.

 

[Dustydog]

That’s not entirely true Buckman.
In the U.K. all financial and insurance issues sold direct or indirect to Joe public are governed by the FSA. My own CAMC cover very clearly states in the complaints procedure I have a Statutory Right to elevate any complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman

 

[Buckman]

That’s not entirely true Buckman.
In the U.K. all financial and insurance issues sold direct or indirect to Joe public are governed by the FSA. My own CAMC cover very clearly states in the complaints procedure I have a Statutory Right to elevate any complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman

That is not my understanding as I read it in the booklet and understood that you as the consumer cannot approach the FOS direct as you do not have insurance with anyone.
Firstly complaint goes through CAMC, then after deadlock letter, escalated to Builders Ins or whatever they call themselves and it is them they escalate the issue to FOS if they feel like escalating it.
As said a complicated way to approach the FOS and I think the hope is that the consumer will give up. We will definitely be looking elsewhere to renew when our current insurance with CAMC expires.

CAMC state the following;

Caravan Cover is discretionary cover provided by the Club designed for members who wish to protect themselves by covering their touring caravan, equipment and contents against loss or damage from a range of causes
including: accidental damage, fire, theft, vandalism, storm and flood. The discretionary cover provided is not a contract of insurance and The Caravan Club Limited is not regulated as an insurance company.

 

[Dustydog]

Yes the CAMC is no longer conventionally underwritten but from a self funded pool .
I have been with them decades and did initially wonder if their good reputation would continue. Thingy’s experience certainly causes me concern.
However on a technical point about the FOS see this

Your right to complain
Every effort is made to provide the highest service standards but on occasion you may feel that our service fails to meet the standard you expect. Should this occur then please contact us as follows:
• Post: Caravan Cover Complaints, Caravan and Motorhome Club, East Grinstead House, East Grinstead, West Sussex RH19 1UA.
• Tel: 01342 326944 (9am to 5pm, Mon to Fri).
• Email: cover@camc.com.
If we cannot settle your complaint with us, or you are not happy with the outcome, we will tell you what you can do next. If your complaint is in respect of a claim you may have the right to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service under the Group Policy as detailed on page 26.
The existence of this complaints procedure does not prejudice your right to take legal proceedings.
Page 4

The Legal Expenses Cover is underwritten independently by DAS Legal Expenses Insurance. There attitude to Thingy certainly leaves a lot to be desired!

 

[Buckman]

For some reason my post has been deleted? Not sure if I broke any rules as thought my post was informative and helpful?

 

[Buckman]

Yes the CAMC is no longer conventionally underwritten but from a self funded pool .
I have been with them decades and did initially wonder if their good reputation would continue. Thingy’s experience certainly causes me concern.
However on a technical point about the FOS see this

Your right to complain
Every effort is made to provide the highest service standards but on occasion you may feel that our service fails to meet the standard you expect. Should this occur then please contact us as follows:
• Post: Caravan Cover Complaints, Caravan and Motorhome Club, East Grinstead House, East Grinstead, West Sussex RH19 1UA.
• Tel: 01342 326944 (9am to 5pm, Mon to Fri).
• Email: cover@camc.com.
If we cannot settle your complaint with us, or you are not happy with the outcome, we will tell you what you can do next. If your complaint is in respect of a claim you may have the right to complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service under the Group Policy as detailed on page 26.
The existence of this complaints procedure does not prejudice your right to take legal proceedings.
Page 4

The Legal Expenses Cover is underwritten independently by DAS Legal Expenses Insurance. There attitude to Thingy certainly leaves a lot to be desired!

Those were my thoughts however the concern was "complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service under the Group Policy as detailed on page 26".

 

[otherclive]

That is not my understanding as I read it in the booklet and understood that you as the consumer cannot approach the FOS direct as you do not have insurance with anyone.
Firstly complaint goes through CAMC, then after deadlock letter, escalated to Builders Ins or whatever they call themselves and it is them they escalate the issue to FOS if they feel like escalating it.
As said a complicated way to approach the FOS and I think the hope is that the consumer will give up. We will definitely be looking elsewhere to renew when our current insurance with CAMC expires.

CAMC state the following;

Caravan Cover is discretionary cover provided by the Club designed for members who wish to protect themselves by covering their touring caravan, equipment and contents against loss or damage from a range of causes
including: accidental damage, fire, theft, vandalism, storm and flood. The discretionary cover provided is not a contract of insurance and The Caravan Club Limited is not regulated as an insurance company.

You have raised this concern on at least two occasions, if not more, and I have even posted a statement from the CMHC Head of Insurance services where he makes it absolutely clear that your rights are exactly the same as with any insurance policy, even though Caravan Cover is not an insurance policy as are CMHC Motor Home insurance etc. I know that you are not a great fan of the CMHC, but why do you continue to misrepresent their position on Caravan Cover? It can only serve to confuse new Forum members who may not understand the actual position.

 

[Buckman]

You have raised this concern on at least two occasions, if not more, and I have even posted a statement from the CMHC Head of Insurance services where he makes it absolutely clear that your rights are exactly the same as with any insurance policy, even though Caravan Cover is not an insurance policy as are CMHC Motor Home insurance etc. I know that you are not a great fan of the CMHC, but why do you continue to misrepresent their position on Caravan Cover? It can only serve to confuse new Forum members who may not understand the actual position.

DD has put it across rather well. I don't like being mislead due to poor wording. However my fault as I should have used an expert to interpret their T&Cs.
The issue here is Thingy getting poor treatment from the Caravan Cover department.

 

[otherclive]

DD has put it across rather well. I don't like being mislead due to poor wording. However my fault as I should have used an expert to interpret their T&Cs.
The issue here is Thingy getting poor treatment from the Caravan Cover department.

For your future reference:



From David Smith CMHC

”
“Complaint escalation process

The following assumes that the claims negotiation does not provide the outcome that the member is satisfied with: the claimant can, if they wish, “skip” the first line and follow the rest of the process

• The member can appeal to the Clubs Senior Management responsible for Caravan Cover: they provide guidance and oversight, as is common with other areas of operation within The Club and have ultimate control on how we exercise discretion on a claims payment
• The member can claim under the Group Policy. Builders who are providing this cover for The Club have asked that we provide these services on their behalf, as this will speed up the claims process. The investigation will be undertaken by an appropriate member of The Club’s staff and a Final Response issued. This Final Response is the trigger that enables a member to take the case to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).
• The member can then take the complaint to the FOS as the Builders policy puts the claim in their remit. We use the word ‘may’ because there are some circumstances where the FOS may say the complaint is outside of their remit ie a member can always refer to the FOS but the FOS doesn’t always accept them (although this is unusual). It is established practice for the FOS to accept complaints from the beneficiary of a Group Policy, as they look at who will “gain” financially from the claim.
• Builders will honour the FOS decision, having followed their normal process”

 

[Dustydog]

For some reason my post has been deleted? Not sure if I broke any rules as thought my post was informative and helpful?

Your post seemed fine to me.

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks for that Clive. What you quote comes from the 2020 wording. There have been a lot of wording changes since 1.1.2021 as I found out at my renewal. Your quote only applies to policies taken out or renewed for 12 months during 2020. Any taken out renewed this year the wording is different. Confused🤪🤪

 

[Buckman]

For your future reference:



From David Smith CMHC

”
“Complaint escalation process

The following assumes that the claims negotiation does not provide the outcome that the member is satisfied with: the claimant can, if they wish, “skip” the first line and follow the rest of the process

• The member can appeal to the Clubs Senior Management responsible for Caravan Cover: they provide guidance and oversight, as is common with other areas of operation within The Club and have ultimate control on how we exercise discretion on a claims payment
• The member can claim under the Group Policy. Builders who are providing this cover for The Club have asked that we provide these services on their behalf, as this will speed up the claims process. The investigation will be undertaken by an appropriate member of The Club’s staff and a Final Response issued. This Final Response is the trigger that enables a member to take the case to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).
• The member can then take the complaint to the FOS as the Builders policy puts the claim in their remit. We use the word ‘may’ because there are some circumstances where the FOS may say the complaint is outside of their remit ie a member can always refer to the FOS but the FOS doesn’t always accept them (although this is unusual). It is established practice for the FOS to accept complaints from the beneficiary of a Group Policy, as they look at who will “gain” financially from the claim.
• Builders will honour the FOS decision, having followed their normal process”

Thank you. It is the word "may" that causes conflict in my mind. However up to Thingy to progress their issue and not us. This issue has certainly highlighted some concerns for us.

 

[otherclive]

Thank you. It is the word "may" that causes conflict in my mind. However up to Thingy to progress their issue and not us. This issue has certainly highlighted some concerns for us.

Doesn't the word 'may" relate to the fact that you could raise your complaint to the FOS but that as per other types of insurance the FOS do not have to accept it? Or has that changed in the current policies?

 

[Dustydog]

Providing you have have followed the Policy Complaints Procedure to the letter and you are not involved in a criminal action connected with the claim then you “may” have the right to refer your complaint to the FOS. There may be other issues that preclude the involvement of the FOS. Generally, I can’t think of any other issue. Obviously the FOS then becomes the final Arbiter.

 

[Thingy]

Reading what you have all written makes a lot of sense. The line that states

The investigation will be undertaken by an appropriate member of The Club’s staff and a Final Response issued. This Final Response is the trigger that enables a member to take the case to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

is simply as I see it in lieu of a DEADLOCK LETTER. Just because Joe Bloggs at the caravan club makes his assesment, doesnt mean the customer has to agree with or accept what Joe Bloggs says. Its just a nother hoop you have to jump through. Once you have reached that stage, even if he doesnt come to the conclusion the customer would wish, there is surely nothing stopping the customer going to FOS.

Put in laymans terms for the benefit of all members

The Insurers offer X but the customer wants Y and Z. Neither can agree, but at that point you have followed all the required steps. The Caravan Club Senior whatever he is cannot make that decison that you cannot progress through other channels including FOS.

 

[Thingy]

UPDATE:
They called me again today, and after having removed the brand new panoramic roof, the verdict is that the sealant hadnt set. Given the kerfuffle to start with about over booking and cancelling my job slot, at least before all hell broke loose, the truth is blindingly obvious. After admitting to being seriously overbooked, and it appearing in the end to be done very quickly, the job has been rushed and the sealant not given any time to cure. Add that to brainless Billy with his pressure washer and we have an answer.

They will give me a complete and certified electrical inspection.
They will replace any parts or fabrics that we consider stained.
The caravan will be finished by the end of next week.

We are still discussing compensation.

 

[Parksy]

For some reason my post has been deleted? Not sure if I broke any rules as thought my post was informative and helpful?

Your post seemed fine to me.

The deleted comment was informative and helpful but not strictly accurate according to other forum members, until the last sentence in which your own personal experiences were outlined.
The guidance in forum etiquette is quite clear.
The relevant section is:

• Avoid "calling out" or attacking specific brands or companies in an effort to shame them with your experience. Take specific complaints directly to that company so they can work with you to resolve it.

 

[Beachball]

UPDATE:
They called me again today, and after having removed the brand new panoramic roof, the verdict is that the sealant haddnt set. Given the kerfuffle to start with about over booking and cancelling my job slot, at least vefore all hell broke loose, the truth is blindingly obvious. After admitting to being seriously overbooked, and it appearing in the end to be done very quickly, the job has been rusged and the sealant not given any time to cure. Add that to brainless Billy with his pressure washer and we have an answer.

They will give me a complete and certified electrical inspection.
They will replace any parts or fabrics that we consider stained.
The caravan will be finished by the end of next week.

We are still discussing compensation.

Hi Thingy Glad it worked out to your advantage justice prevails !

 

[Dustydog]

Thingy, I’m speechless!
A competent qualified dealer / repairer used a pressure washer on your caravan. I can understand the need to test for water leaks but surely something less brutal💦💦💦💦

 

[Thingy]

Well Dusty, I too was speechless, stunned to be honest, and then I found my voice. But as a personal thing, I never ever use my pressure wash on the caravan, to me its lunacy.

I cant say much about the dealer, until woosiefest. You will be shocked as to their identity.

 

[Gagakev]

Well Dusty, I too was speechless, stunned to be honest, and then I found my voice. But as a personal think, I never ever use my pressure wash on the caravan, to me its lunacy.

I cant say much about the dealer, until woosiefest. You will be shocked as to their identity.

Ive got to get to the Woosiefest just to give you the rainfall you need to test it all!!!!

Glad its working out for you Thingy.

 

[Thingy]

Just for you Kev. The rain dance!

 

[Parksy]

Just for you Kev.

You lay em, I'll sell em 😁