Which tyres

[Hutch]

My Original Hankooks on the Sante Fe, managed 42 k miles I tend to swop front to rear when the front tyres get to about 2 mm less than the backs and change tyres at 3mm tread left.
The Knokian Weatherproofs have now done 30 k miles and are now down to 4.5 mm so will easily acheive another 5 to 10 k miles before I will replace them so for wear I am very happy with them they are great in the wet and handle well on the fast roundabouts of Milton Keynes.

 

[ProfJohnL]

A quick Google search reveals a number of tyre companies suggesting that it is better to fit the new, best condition or least worn tyres to the rear.

Khumo has an explanation here:-

Should you fit new tyres to the front or rear?

You’ve bought a new pair of tyres, but here’s a question, should you fit your new tyres to the front or rear?

kumhotyre.co.uk

 

[Buckman]

A quick Google search reveals a number of tyre companies suggesting that it is better to fit the new, best condition or least worn tyres to the rear.

Khumo has an explanation here:-

Should you fit new tyres to the front or rear?

You’ve bought a new pair of tyres, but here’s a question, should you fit your new tyres to the front or rear?

kumhotyre.co.uk

The article refers to front wheel drive cars and not rear wheel or AWD vehicles so not sure if the same principle applies?

 

[ProfJohnL]

The article refers to front wheel drive cars and not rear wheel or AWD vehicles so not sure if the same principle applies?

The article makes the point that most modern cars are front wheel drive. It did not say that the article only referred to FWD cars.

It goes on to the reasoning for the advice which is to encourage a vehicle towards understeer, which it suggests is a safer or easier to respond to or control compared to oversteer. But in any event having a set of well heeled tyres on the rear maximising there ability to grip is always a good thing.

The reasoning applies to all types of car drive arrangements, and thus to RWD and AWD vehicles.

 

[otherclive]

My Sorento and Pajero both recommended if tyres weren’t all the same tread depth to have the rears with the deeper tread. But not a ridiculous difference in depth. IE 6.5 mm would not be a good difference in 4WD, although if you ran the cars in 2WD which I did quite a lot then the drive to the front diff is isolated via the transfer gearbox. Even years ago on my two Volvos and BMW they had the new tyres installed on the rear for the reasons given in the Kuhmo link provided by Prof John.

 

[Hutch]

Prof, On the forum some time ago, there was a similar question and someone replied that My Knokian Weatherproofs were more of a "Winter " all season, as opposed to other tyres that might be a Warmer weather tyre suitable for Winter.
As my tyres will be changed later this year, hopefully, I will be going for the Michelin, Cross Climates. +.

Strangley enough I had many friends that worked for Michelin Tyres in Nigeria. As they had rubber plantations there.

 

[JezzerB]

If you read the tests tyres from diff manufacturers do seem to be better in certain areas; wet grip, economy etc (economy often but not always= less grip) and every tyre is a compromise -down to what you want, inc price-but the Autoexpress tests allow you to examine each area compared to a summer tyre or control tyre. One or two tests are subjective ie wet handling feel, dry handling feel.
8.5 degrees here yesterday, our Mini Ev felt a bit lacking for grip in the front wheel area-damp roundabout plus camber yesterday=traction light flashing!

 

[otherclive]

Prof, On the forum some time ago, there was a similar question and someone replied that My Knokian Weatherproofs were more of a "Winter " all season, as opposed to other tyres that might be a Warmer weather tyre suitable for Winter.
As my tyres will be changed later this year, hopefully, I will be going for the Michelin, Cross Climates. +.

Strangley enough I had many friends that worked for Michelin Tyres in Nigeria. As they had rubber plantations there.

Better stay off wet grass CLs when towing. My Michelin’s were excellent road tyres and I had no problems in the Beast from the East. But a wet CL in Cumbria defeated them. Although Cumbria also defeated a Sorento on AT and XC 70 on Pirelli M&S. Perhaps the life lesson is keep off Cumbrian CLs 😂

Thats why I chose the Bridgestone Weather Controls as less “ aggressive” than Nokians but more open tread than Michelin. Plus they are consistently up there amongst the top performing tyre in comparative tests. They towed the outfit off wet grass pitches at Winchester and Malvern last summer and were fine in the recent snow. Mine was the only car that attempted to leave our uphill sloping close in this recent snow.

 

[Robert_374373903]

Regarding TYRON , sometime ago I saw the damage a tyre could do on a caravan . When it came off the whole wheel arch was destroyed, probably damage inside as well. When mine went it was just a flat tyre. A (story afterwards).

 

[Robert_374373903]

Regarding winter tyres, have never bought them and only once to my recollection were they needed and that was in the early 60s when my 4 year old son broke his femur and whilst in hospital with him it snowed and we wanted to get back home .Traffic had stopped so roads were deep in snow. ln later life have photo where the snow is higher than our motorhome .

 

[ProfJohnL]

Regarding TYRON , sometime ago I saw the damage a tyre could do on a caravan . When it came off the whole wheel arch was destroyed, probably damage inside as well. When mine went it was just a flat tyre. A (story afterwards).

Whether a tyre disintegrates is not simply down to the fitting or otherwise of a tyre band. If you look into the technicalities of tyre bands, there is no conclusive evidence of any benefit for normal vehicles because modern wheels already have bead retaining ridges which essentially do what the bands claim to do. Naturally the band manufacturers do not point this out.

Tyre bands have been available for several decades, If tyre bands were the universal safety product the manufacturer would like you to believe, they would be standard fit on all vehicles.

There are two aspects of tyre bands that call into question their effectiveness:-
If they were such a proven safety benefit like seat belts and ABS ;-

1. They would be a standard requirement on all vehicles.
2. There would be a plethora of manufacturers.

Arguably tyre failures leading to blow outs are best mitigated by proper maintenance of the tyres, and these days TPMS systems are a more practical method which detects the beginnings of pressure loss before a tyre fails.

As you can tell I do not see any practical benefit of having tyre bands. Fortunately fitting them is not detrimental to the tyres (except there can be problems when trying to change tyre at some fitting stations).

Some people feel safer with them, and that's fine provided they can stand the cost and inconvenience.

 

[Lutz]

Regarding TYRON , sometime ago I saw the damage a tyre could do on a caravan . When it came off the whole wheel arch was destroyed, probably damage inside as well. When mine went it was just a flat tyre. A (story afterwards).

Tyron bands can't prevent a tyre from disintegrating. At best they can prevent the tyre bead from parting from the wheel, but they have no control over the sidewall or the tread, which can still separate from the bead, thereby causing damage to the wheel arch.

Regarding winter tyres, have never bought them and only once to my recollection were they needed and that was in the early 60s when my 4 year old son broke his femur and whilst in hospital with him it snowed and we wanted to get back home .Traffic had stopped so roads were deep in snow. ln later life have photo where the snow is higher than our motorhome .

Like I said before, winter tyres aren't there only in case of snow or ice. At low temperatures they have their benefits on a perfectly dry road, too.

 

[Buckman]

Surely it is personal choice whether you want Tyron bands fitted for peace of mind? Hardly inconvenient to the user having them fitted.

 

[Parksy]

Surely it is personal choice whether you want Tyron bands fitted for peace of mind? Hardly inconvenient to the user having them fitted.

Exactly!
You pay your money and take your choice, but as has been pointed out, Tyron bands can only prevent the bead separating from the wheel rim.
They are ineffective in a blow out scenario.
Don't be lulled into a false sense of security by having them fitted

 

[ProfJohnL]

Surely it is personal choice whether you want Tyron bands fitted for peace of mind? Hardly inconvenient to the user having them fitted.

Of course its a matter of personal choice, but there is an element of inconvenience, as some tyre fitters cannot or will not change tyres if bands are fitted.

What grieves me about tyre bands, is the manufacturers are very keen to play on the natural fear of a blow out, and then try to suggest their product will help, when there is no verified evidence it actually does make a significant difference.

 

[otherclive]

Of course its a matter of personal choice, but there is an element of inconvenience, as some tyre fitters cannot or will not change tyres if bands are fitted.

What grieves me about tyre bands, is the manufacturers are very keen to play on the natural fear of a blow out, and then try to suggest their product will help, when there is no verified evidence it actually does make a significant difference.

I had a blow out going at 60 mph on a downhill dual carriageway from Monmouth to Newport. The first indication was a sort of roar akin to a jumbo going by. The outfit was steady but there was added drag, and naturally uncertain as to what was happening I eased back. Looking in my mirrors I saw the nearside tyre shredding around. After pulling over it was clear that the tyre had let go. Why? I don’t know. It was under the then 6 years advisory life but perhaps the previous owner had overloaded it or left it stationary for long periods. The wire beading was still in situ but little else. After fitting the spare I drove home very gently and changed all three tyres.

 

[Beachball]

Regarding TYRON , sometime ago I saw the damage a tyre could do on a caravan . When it came off the whole wheel arch was destroyed, probably damage inside as well. When mine went it was just a flat tyre. A (story afterwards).

The previous owner of the caravan had Tyron fitted so that was her to each your own .

 

[Buckman]

Exactly!
You pay your money and take your choice, but as has been pointed out, Tyron bands can only prevent the bead separating from the wheel rim.
They are ineffective in a blow out scenario.
Don't be lulled into a false sense of security by having them fitted

Neither will a TPMS or any other gadget in the event of a blow out.

 

[Buckman]

Of course its a matter of personal choice, but there is an element of inconvenience, as some tyre fitters cannot or will not change tyres if bands are fitted.

What grieves me about tyre bands, is the manufacturers are very keen to play on the natural fear of a blow out, and then try to suggest their product will help, when there is no verified evidence it actually does make a significant difference.

Do you have proof that it does not make any difference? We do not have them fitted, but had them on a caravan many years ago however we never had a blow out or even a puncture so I cannot comment either way. However it seems that you have an indepth knowledge of Tyron bands and experienced a blow out using them.
However I think we are all digressing as the OP was about tyres and not Tyron bands.

 

[Lutz]

Neither will a TPMS or any other gadget in the event of a blow out.

But TPMS will give advance warning of an impending blowout in a case where the blowout was caused by inadequate air pressure or slow loss of air pressure from a puncture, resulting excessive flexing, followed by final disintegration, of the tyre sidewalls. Such cases are probably the most common cause of a blowout.

 

[Lutz]

Do you have proof that it does not make any difference? We do not have them fitted, but had them on a caravan many years ago however we never had a blow out or even a puncture so I cannot comment either way. However it seems that you have an indepth knowledge of Tyron bands and experienced a blow out using them.
However I think we are all digressing as the OP was about tyres and not Tyron bands.

A close look at the design concept of Tyron bands will reveal that they cannot do anything other than prevent the bead from leaving the wheel. They have no means of retaining the sidewalls or tread which both can fail when a tyre disintegrates in the event of a blowout.

 

[JezzerB]

The answer of course, is runflats; they are most unpleasant on a car from my experience-hard side walls and noisier and less give and grip than a standard equivalent -but a tremendous safety feature-but am not sure they're available for caravans!

 

[Lutz]

The answer of course, is runflats; they are most unpleasant on a car from my experience-hard side walls and noisier and less give and grip than a standard equivalent -but a tremendous safety feature-but am not sure they're available for caravans!

However, runflats must be fitted with TPMS, too, so there's no way of getting round TPMS.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Do you have proof that it does not make any difference? We do not have them fitted, but had them on a caravan many years ago however we never had a blow out or even a puncture so I cannot comment either way. However it seems that you have an indepth knowledge of Tyron bands and experienced a blow out using them.
However I think we are all digressing as the OP was about tyres and not Tyron bands.

Its not for me to prove they don't make a difference. I'm not claiming they do. It's normally the case that if someone makes a claim for improved safety, they should should provide properly balanced evidence to prove the facts.

The manufacturers evidence was not balanced. They used an explosive charge to rupture the side wall of a tyre. That is nothing like the cause of blow outs for normal drivers. It might represent a bullet in a war zone but not a normal road failure.

I do not have an in depth knowledge of "Tyron" bands, I have never claimed that. But as an engineer and having carried out many assessments of products, I do have a nose for hype vs reality. Just as Lutz points out the principle of the bands is not difficult to see or understand.

 

[JezzerB]

I can defintely see the benefit of TPMS Lutz-have no issue with that-apart from expensive valves!!