4x4 Debate

[CliveV]

Hey come on guys - we can have different opinions and put them forcibly but no need for rudeness or name calling.

Euro - I do not like diesels either - the only thing that makes them clean is technology - it can never be as inherently clean as LPG for example.

And Gio - as for never doing anything to help resolve the situation - what arrogance on your part! How do you know?

Like Frank we recycle all that we possibly can. I pay out to have my vehicle converted to LPG so that it is cleaner and does not need to have a catalytic converter.

I am on call to fetch injured animals - I am a member (new) of Wessex 4x4 response.

Basically I care about the environment whereas the only thing I see the Anti's care about is their own misinformed opinions and prejudice.

Sadly you, just like most of them, immediately label anyone who does not agree with you as someone who does not care.

The true arrogance of the zealot.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

My last post to you still applies, all you are doing is

critising me/greenpeace whoever.

You are not actually coming up with any suggestions on how to

improve things, are you.

stop critising and come up with alternative suggestions.

If not then mine are better than none at all

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Hey come on guys - we can have different opinions and put them forcibly but no need for rudeness or name calling.

Euro - I do not like diesels either - the only thing that makes them clean is technology - it can never be as inherently clean as LPG for example.

And Gio - as for never doing anything to help resolve the situation - what arrogance on your part! How do you know?

Like Frank we recycle all that we possibly can. I pay out to have my vehicle converted to LPG so that it is cleaner and does not need to have a catalytic converter.

I am on call to fetch injured animals - I am a member (new) of Wessex 4x4 response.

Basically I care about the environment whereas the only thing I see the Anti's care about is their own misinformed opinions and prejudice.

Sadly you, just like most of them, immediately label anyone who does not agree with you as someone who does not care.

The true arrogance of the zealot.

i think you missed the bit about jumping infront of a car, or

does that come under rudness?

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Hey come on guys - we can have different opinions and put them forcibly but no need for rudeness or name calling.

Euro - I do not like diesels either - the only thing that makes them clean is technology - it can never be as inherently clean as LPG for example.

And Gio - as for never doing anything to help resolve the situation - what arrogance on your part! How do you know?

Like Frank we recycle all that we possibly can. I pay out to have my vehicle converted to LPG so that it is cleaner and does not need to have a catalytic converter.

I am on call to fetch injured animals - I am a member (new) of Wessex 4x4 response.

Basically I care about the environment whereas the only thing I see the Anti's care about is their own misinformed opinions and prejudice.

Sadly you, just like most of them, immediately label anyone who does not agree with you as someone who does not care.

The true arrogance of the zealot.

i think my posts are pretty clear these days clive.

i made no mention of recycling at home as such.

i mentioned the fact that for all your concerns on this topic,

you have not once mentioned any sort of proactiveness to help

remedy it.

I am listening but nothing is being said!

 

[CliveV]

For goodness sake Gio - your suggestions about NOT tackling the biggest polluters and only going for cars etc is a nonsense,

I am suggesting that Governments should be taxing all polluters not selectively attacking a very small band of vehicle types.

To do so may satisfy you and the other antis but what are you going to say to your children in 20 thirty years time when they ask "why did you waste time banning 4x4's when the real culprits carried on producing pollutants at an alarming rate?"

Your lot of bigoted antis will be the "Dr Beechings" of your generation unless you start getting real.

Wasting effort on a trivial polluter whilst "Friends of the earth" could not even provide a spokesperson for the Guardian on the biggest single CO2 emitting industry!

Amazing

 

[Guest]

Reality check Gio, my X5 is nicer than you, but you do need to lighten up.

Threatening people is a litle different to making suggestions ;-) and we all know about Italian tanks going faster in reverse so your threatening nature is of no worry and I will be in Eire anyway not France.

But going back a bit, I made no comment about your cars health, but pointed out that in general you are prattling on to people who keep ther cars healthy.

Fact. UK road building has lagged behind for years causing more polution.

Fact. UK government has failed to implement cleaner fuels soon enough. They lagged years behind with unleaded and ignored their own data and have continued to ignore cleaner fuel advances until forced.

Fact. London , Brighton and other city's manipulate traffic flow for financial gain and cause pollution, accidents and more problems for politiacal agendas.

Fact. UK government ignored their own forcasts re road and car use and funded the car industry, often bowing to union pressures.

I never mentioned throwing yourself under a CAR, after all the environmental consequences would be huge.

As you moan on about Chelsea Tractors, CO2, 4 x 4 fuel concerns etc. How come you are polluting all the way to Italy. Surely one so green would use video link to see famly or whatever.

Of course if it's a one way trip, that would save the UK in the long run. I take it you will be picketing at Maranello and Bolognese as you are so concrned about fuel burners that really are not practical.

 

[CliveV]

My personal pet hate is sleeping policemen or speed humps. The cause more pollution in towns because care have to slow down then speed up and they also compromise the ability of the emergency services to get to you.

Gio - you stance that your doing something is better than whatever I am doing is rediculously unfair. I have made many suggestions - mainly along the lines of curbing polution from cement production - which is real problem seeing as China and India are growing their economies rapidly.

The USA does not help either being one of the most wasteful societies on the planet.

I do not think you and your fellow Anti's can understand the stance I and most other "more experienced" individuals (old!) are making because what we advocate does not involve banning anything.

Your stance is aggressively negative and based upon a false premise.

My stance is more realistic and calls for a concerted effort to reduce pollution from ALL areas - Not just one minor insignificant vehicle type that happens to have more than one propshaft!

 

[Guest]

We live mainly in France as we get more respect from the Authorites and People there than in our own country.

We've ordered two new cars for next year, no one said hey Euro we don't want your money as we can't handle the Pollution.

Your Mr Blair hops on jets and glides around with his fellow ministers in Limo's.

Our shops at home close at sensible times, here stores are open at all hours lights burning. Driving through Bracknell earlier lights blaze in empty offices along with signs that mean nothing yet some numpty moans that my car does 5 mpg less than others.

Some UK tax expert will work out how much VAT and duty I'll pay on a new 4.8s and 3.0D X5. Stuff what anyone thinks, my choice and think what you will.

We agreed the price of our garage at home with the builder , he is over the moon making a few thousand extra Euro's on the project.

UK government will take a whole load more off of my cars as they have done for years and treat me like a lepper along with some numpty rattling on about CO2 whilst others want us to solve the worlds problems having paid the government dearly to do that job.

 

[Geordie]

Watch a prog on the box the other week about this very subject and the USA, CHINA, and INDIA have made it clear they will increase output and not reduce it, so it seems the little blip on planet called BRITAIN will have to save the world as we know it. I also read an article that said we could remove all the 4x4s in Europe and it would not make the slightest difference.

 

[Lutz]

My personal pet hate is sleeping policemen or speed humps. The cause more pollution in towns because care have to slow down then speed up and they also compromise the ability of the emergency services to get to you.

Gio - you stance that your doing something is better than whatever I am doing is rediculously unfair. I have made many suggestions - mainly along the lines of curbing polution from cement production - which is real problem seeing as China and India are growing their economies rapidly.

The USA does not help either being one of the most wasteful societies on the planet.

I do not think you and your fellow Anti's can understand the stance I and most other "more experienced" individuals (old!) are making because what we advocate does not involve banning anything.

Your stance is aggressively negative and based upon a false premise.

My stance is more realistic and calls for a concerted effort to reduce pollution from ALL areas - Not just one minor insignificant vehicle type that happens to have more than one propshaft!

I'm surprised that you, as a 4x4 driver, hate sleeping policemen or speed humps. Since I've had mine I don't bother to slow down any more.

Recently, I was being followed by a boy racer with a lowered Alfa. He was obviously eager to overtake me as he was right on my tail. Then came the speed bumps. I took them without droping my speed. He was too close behind me to see them in time. You should have seen the sparks fly from his exhaust system and underbody!

 

[Eileen_5094103]

I was dusting today and as usual dusted the globe. I like to sit and look at it for a while and I am always reminded how very small Great Britain is compared to the rest of the world. I see little point in increasingly abusive exchanges between owners of different types of car in this country when what we do in our relatively tiny country will have little global effect unless every country in the world joins in.

 

[DEANO3528]

Bet you thought you'd got rid of me again...

In the order that the comments have been posted, including the attempts at hidden ones allowed by this daft forum software!

steve in Leo - "On the other hand though I do think that road tax and insurance should be charged through the fuel taxation system."

I agree wholeheartedly. If I wish to drive my Range Rover V8 at 15 mpg, I will pay a lot of dosh through the fuel consumption. Halving that mpg by using my Tdi Disco means that although the grin factor will be slightly less, the Gov't will also be getting a fair bit less. If someone wants to drive a Smart car they will be quids in and fair play to them. That's their choice and I have no business telling them what vehicle they should be driving.

Lutz - "Watching the debate from the sideline, it does amaze me a bit how many people feel the need to scrape the barrel to try to find some logical reason to justify the purchase of a 4x4."

and

steve in Leo - "...a balanced, good spirited debate is a good debate and those who get all touchy about their hang ups need to, sit it out."

It's strange the way it's ok to state that 4wd's should be banned or taxed out of existence due to their carbon footprint or whatever you wish to call it, but if one person tries to put the other side of the argument, then suddenly that person is 'scraping the barrel' or 'getting all touchy'.

euro - "We may all be part of Europe..."

You speak for yourself, I'm English and a British citizen.

giovanni - I don't believe you need to justify anything, this is something that people do when they feel guilty!

Guilty of what exactly?

Freedom of choice?

Making small minded people feel envious?

? - "We have to try to stretch our resources as best as can be done"

We wouldn't need to if the Gov't actually used a fraction of the money robbed from the motorists for the use of the road network.

steve in Leo - "I can manage to climb grassy slopes of upto 1 in 10 gradient going straight just by lowering the front tyre pressure to 10psi."

Which means you need to carry a compressor at all times as the use under-inflated tyres on the public highway is an offence and would render your insurance invalid.

CliveV - "Gio - the actual data is as follows:-

2.5T engine (210ps) Urban cycle = 19.6 mpg

2.5T engine (210ps) AWD Urban cycle - 19.1mpg

source Volvo UK."

whoops, the anti's BS strikes again!

CliveV - "Only when public transport is taken seriously will people get out of their cars"

Considering the amount of money extorted from motorists over the years, the public transport network should be the best in the world

CliveV - "And the important point here is choice - Why are you so intent on manipulating other peoples choice?"

Because they can't help themselves, the green monster is strong!

Clivev - "I have to say euro that seeing tv footage of Greenpeace Inflatable roaring about "saving the planet" for us sinners really does make me laugh."

Not to mention the 'spawn of the devil' jet aircraft they charter on a whim, to get their misguided members to the green hotspots.

Since I started towing seriously back in the late 70's I have always believed in the tenet that big car = better tow.

From my Dad's Austin 1800 (the only decent and effective front wheel drive vehicle I ever towed with, right through the 5, yes 5, Mk2 Granada 2.8's. I towed with others: a Capri for instance and the Sierra were nightmares! Same applies in the haulage industry. British hauliers buy the smallest available engine in the misguided notion that they are saving money. Wrong! A bigger engine is less stressed and so is capable of better fuel returns because you aren't clogging it through every gear just to keep up with normal traffic.

But no one wants to hear a reasoned argument unless it agrees with their way of thinking.

 

[DEANO3528]

And another thing.

Giovanni should be taken to task over his personal attack on another user.

A sure sign that the walls are crumbling around the poorly constructed statistics he tries to quote when he has to resort to such tactics.

 

[Lutz]

Bet you thought you'd got rid of me again...

In the order that the comments have been posted, including the attempts at hidden ones allowed by this daft forum software!

steve in Leo - "On the other hand though I do think that road tax and insurance should be charged through the fuel taxation system."

I agree wholeheartedly. If I wish to drive my Range Rover V8 at 15 mpg, I will pay a lot of dosh through the fuel consumption. Halving that mpg by using my Tdi Disco means that although the grin factor will be slightly less, the Gov't will also be getting a fair bit less. If someone wants to drive a Smart car they will be quids in and fair play to them. That's their choice and I have no business telling them what vehicle they should be driving.

Lutz - "Watching the debate from the sideline, it does amaze me a bit how many people feel the need to scrape the barrel to try to find some logical reason to justify the purchase of a 4x4."

and

steve in Leo - "...a balanced, good spirited debate is a good debate and those who get all touchy about their hang ups need to, sit it out."

It's strange the way it's ok to state that 4wd's should be banned or taxed out of existence due to their carbon footprint or whatever you wish to call it, but if one person tries to put the other side of the argument, then suddenly that person is 'scraping the barrel' or 'getting all touchy'.

euro - "We may all be part of Europe..."

You speak for yourself, I'm English and a British citizen.

giovanni - I don't believe you need to justify anything, this is something that people do when they feel guilty!

Guilty of what exactly?

Freedom of choice?

Making small minded people feel envious?

? - "We have to try to stretch our resources as best as can be done"

We wouldn't need to if the Gov't actually used a fraction of the money robbed from the motorists for the use of the road network.

steve in Leo - "I can manage to climb grassy slopes of upto 1 in 10 gradient going straight just by lowering the front tyre pressure to 10psi."

Which means you need to carry a compressor at all times as the use under-inflated tyres on the public highway is an offence and would render your insurance invalid.

CliveV - "Gio - the actual data is as follows:-

2.5T engine (210ps) Urban cycle = 19.6 mpg

2.5T engine (210ps) AWD Urban cycle - 19.1mpg

source Volvo UK."

whoops, the anti's BS strikes again!

CliveV - "Only when public transport is taken seriously will people get out of their cars"

Considering the amount of money extorted from motorists over the years, the public transport network should be the best in the world

CliveV - "And the important point here is choice - Why are you so intent on manipulating other peoples choice?"

Because they can't help themselves, the green monster is strong!

Clivev - "I have to say euro that seeing tv footage of Greenpeace Inflatable roaring about "saving the planet" for us sinners really does make me laugh."

Not to mention the 'spawn of the devil' jet aircraft they charter on a whim, to get their misguided members to the green hotspots.

Since I started towing seriously back in the late 70's I have always believed in the tenet that big car = better tow.

From my Dad's Austin 1800 (the only decent and effective front wheel drive vehicle I ever towed with, right through the 5, yes 5, Mk2 Granada 2.8's. I towed with others: a Capri for instance and the Sierra were nightmares! Same applies in the haulage industry. British hauliers buy the smallest available engine in the misguided notion that they are saving money. Wrong! A bigger engine is less stressed and so is capable of better fuel returns because you aren't clogging it through every gear just to keep up with normal traffic.

But no one wants to hear a reasoned argument unless it agrees with their way of thinking.

All I was trying to say, Deano, was that the superior traction of a 4x4 under adverse conditions is the only really rational reason for buying one. Most other reasons are pseudo, used to cover up a much deeper emotional affinity towards 4x4's. Because they are being criticised by sections of the public, I get the impression that some owners feel the need to have to defend their case by justifying their purchase with obscure reasons, instead of being honest and saying that they bought them just because they like them. They seem to fear an even more hostile reaction if they outed themselves with the real reason.

I'm not slating 4x4's and a purely emotional decision is perfectly legitimate so why not put the cards on the table? There is absolutely no reason, in principle, why 4x4's should otherwise be worse than equivalent cars of similar size and power. Where they are worse, this is mainly due to the fact that they are often based on older designs but I am sure that the next generation of 4x4's to come on the market will overcome that.

After all, you can't compare a Toyota Landcruiser Amazon, for example, with a Smart because if the guy didn't buy a Landcruiser, he'd probably buy a Merc S450 or something similar, but certainly not a Smart.

 

[CliveV]

euro.

You seem to have preconcieved ideas, well of me atleast.

Finally i now know that you can keep them to youself.

Yes my cars are well maintained, and they are diesels.

Infact just fitted a new MAF sensor today, do you know what one

is? do you know or for that matter can you tell when one is not

working totally proper? or do you wait till it fails completely.

AS FOR THE REST OF YOUR STATEMENT,

can only assume its down to a misspent childhood, because for

the life of me i cannot fathom how on earth you have come to

such a conclusion, without a shread of evidence.

i do believe you are the first chelsea tractor driver on here.

welcome.

Gio - If you have replaced rather than just cleaned your Mass Air Flow sensor - you have probably wasted a lot of money.

The "hot wire" that is the actual sensor gets very hot (about 200 deg C) and as such dirt particles and pollen that get past the air filter burn onto the wire and leave it covered in soot.

If you take it out (Don't drop it! Or poke the sensor wire with anything - if you break the wire you will need a new one then anyway!!) and clean it with some aerosol carb cleaning fluid - the soot will just dissolve away leaving the MAF sensor wire clean and as new.

Total cost about

 

[Lutz]

I meant to post my last reply as a reply, not as a comment, so here it is again.

All I was trying to say, Deano, was that the superior traction of a 4x4 under adverse conditions is the only really rational reason for buying one. Most other reasons are pseudo, used to cover up a much deeper emotional affinity towards 4x4's. Because they are being criticised by sections of the public, I get the impression that some owners feel the need to have to defend their case by justifying their purchase with obscure reasons, instead of being honest and saying that they bought them just because they like them. They seem to fear an even more hostile reaction if they outed themselves with the real reason.

I'm not slating 4x4's and a purely emotional decision is perfectly legitimate so why not put the cards on the table? There is absolutely no reason, in principle, why 4x4's should otherwise be worse than equivalent cars of similar size and power. Where they are worse, this is mainly due to the fact that they are often based on older designs but I am sure that the next generation of 4x4's to come on the market will overcome that.

After all, you can't compare a Toyota Landcruiser Amazon, for example, with a Smart because if the guy didn't buy a Landcruiser, he'd probably buy a Merc S450 or something similar, but certainly not a Smart.

 

[Viking1]

Sorry I do not now if I do right post this hear but hear go's.

So moths a go owe diesel 2 tdi had to go to have the hand brake fix wile it was in we were give a petrel 1100 to run round for 5 days.

The petrel car comes with a full tank of fuel which we had to fill it up or we would get charge

 

[CliveV]

Morning Lutz

Unlike Deano (no offence Deano but I am pro Europe) I am very pro Europe - I think EU law is an invaluable check on the Numpty laws the Taxman and the politicians try to force upon us.

I understand the logic of what you say Lutz and in a fair world what you say would surfice.

So perhaps this exemplifies the diference between a EU "thinker" and the rather vicious malase that seems to be part of Btittish life these days.

The Anti's would simply have a feeding frenzy on those of us that simply said we drove a 4x4 because we "like them" - to them that is justification enough to have our vehicles taken away. They seem to want a "Big Brother" state that dictates what we can do and have. They seem to thrive on and really enjoy the prospect of taking away something people enjoy.

After all as you so correctly state - there is no real justification to ban 4x4's on emmissions grounds.

Gio asks of euro -

" Yes my cars are well maintained, and they are diesels.

Infact just fitted a new MAF sensor today, do you know what one

is? do you know or for that matter can you tell when one is not

working totally proper? or do you wait till it fails completely."

Is it me or is the arrogance of the question linked to a remakably aggressive stance that "Gio knows best"

In fact fitting a new Mass Air Flow sensor is usually not nessessary - just cleaning it with Carb cleaner solvent usually solves the problem.

So rather than prove how clever he is, Gio has simply demonstrated to us all that his pocket is a good few GBP's lighter than it need be.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Reality check Gio, my X5 is nicer than you, but you do need to lighten up.

Threatening people is a litle different to making suggestions ;-) and we all know about Italian tanks going faster in reverse so your threatening nature is of no worry and I will be in Eire anyway not France.

But going back a bit, I made no comment about your cars health, but pointed out that in general you are prattling on to people who keep ther cars healthy.

Fact. UK road building has lagged behind for years causing more polution.

Fact. UK government has failed to implement cleaner fuels soon enough. They lagged years behind with unleaded and ignored their own data and have continued to ignore cleaner fuel advances until forced.

Fact. London , Brighton and other city's manipulate traffic flow for financial gain and cause pollution, accidents and more problems for politiacal agendas.

Fact. UK government ignored their own forcasts re road and car use and funded the car industry, often bowing to union pressures.

I never mentioned throwing yourself under a CAR, after all the environmental consequences would be huge.

As you moan on about Chelsea Tractors, CO2, 4 x 4 fuel concerns etc. How come you are polluting all the way to Italy. Surely one so green would use video link to see famly or whatever.

Of course if it's a one way trip, that would save the UK in the long run. I take it you will be picketing at Maranello and Bolognese as you are so concrned about fuel burners that really are not practical.

I found this answer to be far more contructed than some of your

previous post.

"driving to Italy" i am driving, because i like it, but maybe i

should say because its friendlier than flying!

assumption assumption, "visiting family" where on earth did that

idea come from? thats the problem with people like you and clive

you make assumption far too often. i can only presume you take

great pleasure in being wrong, regular.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

I'm surprised that you, as a 4x4 driver, hate sleeping policemen or speed humps. Since I've had mine I don't bother to slow down any more.

Recently, I was being followed by a boy racer with a lowered Alfa. He was obviously eager to overtake me as he was right on my tail. Then came the speed bumps. I took them without droping my speed. He was too close behind me to see them in time. You should have seen the sparks fly from his exhaust system and underbody!

no, no sparks off the exhaust, that was his undertry, its there

for just that reason!

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Morning Lutz

Unlike Deano (no offence Deano but I am pro Europe) I am very pro Europe - I think EU law is an invaluable check on the Numpty laws the Taxman and the politicians try to force upon us.

I understand the logic of what you say Lutz and in a fair world what you say would surfice.

So perhaps this exemplifies the diference between a EU "thinker" and the rather vicious malase that seems to be part of Btittish life these days.

The Anti's would simply have a feeding frenzy on those of us that simply said we drove a 4x4 because we "like them" - to them that is justification enough to have our vehicles taken away. They seem to want a "Big Brother" state that dictates what we can do and have. They seem to thrive on and really enjoy the prospect of taking away something people enjoy.

After all as you so correctly state - there is no real justification to ban 4x4's on emmissions grounds.

Gio asks of euro -

" Yes my cars are well maintained, and they are diesels.

Infact just fitted a new MAF sensor today, do you know what one

is? do you know or for that matter can you tell when one is not

working totally proper? or do you wait till it fails completely."

Is it me or is the arrogance of the question linked to a remakably aggressive stance that "Gio knows best"

In fact fitting a new Mass Air Flow sensor is usually not nessessary - just cleaning it with Carb cleaner solvent usually solves the problem.

So rather than prove how clever he is, Gio has simply demonstrated to us all that his pocket is a good few GBP's lighter than it need be.

you talk of arrogance! and yet again make assumption! there is only a few times when cleaning an Maf actually works! did you bother to ask if i had done this? NO instead you show your arrogance, yet again.

NO my maf sensor needed changing, and i would never use carb

cleaner, i use the purest alcohol i can get from the chemist.

 

[CliveV]

You make a fair point Mark

There is no denying that Diesels are more economical and are slightly better at CO2 emmissions than petrol as well so no the face of it we should all be driving diesels.

However, CO2 is not the only problem. Diesels produce far more other toxic chemicals than petrol engines.

Particulate hydrocarbons being one of the worst things - this stuff is carcinogenic and older diesel motors chug out buckets full of the horrible stuff straight onto the pavement where we and our children walk!

Most respiratory specialists see a link with diseases such as Asthma and diesel particulate emmissions.

As you know my prefeerence is a petrol engine converted to LPG. Lower CO2 than diesel, virtually no other polutants and far, far cheaper to run.

However, modern diesels are improving at a staggering pace. The TDV6 engine in the new Discovery is totaly stunning. I would have one tomorrow and probably add a LPG diesel kit to it to improve it even more!

However - it still bothers me that all we are doing is containing all the polutants in the expensive and difficult to dispose of Catalytic Converters that you need to clean these engines up!

If you have an LPG conversion on a petrol car you can remove the Catalytic Converters as there is little or no emmissions for the things to "catch".

 

[CliveV]

Morning Lutz

Unlike Deano (no offence Deano but I am pro Europe) I am very pro Europe - I think EU law is an invaluable check on the Numpty laws the Taxman and the politicians try to force upon us.

I understand the logic of what you say Lutz and in a fair world what you say would surfice.

So perhaps this exemplifies the diference between a EU "thinker" and the rather vicious malase that seems to be part of Btittish life these days.

The Anti's would simply have a feeding frenzy on those of us that simply said we drove a 4x4 because we "like them" - to them that is justification enough to have our vehicles taken away. They seem to want a "Big Brother" state that dictates what we can do and have. They seem to thrive on and really enjoy the prospect of taking away something people enjoy.

After all as you so correctly state - there is no real justification to ban 4x4's on emmissions grounds.

Gio asks of euro -

" Yes my cars are well maintained, and they are diesels.

Infact just fitted a new MAF sensor today, do you know what one

is? do you know or for that matter can you tell when one is not

working totally proper? or do you wait till it fails completely."

Is it me or is the arrogance of the question linked to a remakably aggressive stance that "Gio knows best"

In fact fitting a new Mass Air Flow sensor is usually not nessessary - just cleaning it with Carb cleaner solvent usually solves the problem.

So rather than prove how clever he is, Gio has simply demonstrated to us all that his pocket is a good few GBP's lighter than it need be.

Yep! - and it shows!

 

[giovanni_5060838]

For goodness sake Gio - your suggestions about NOT tackling the biggest polluters and only going for cars etc is a nonsense,

I am suggesting that Governments should be taxing all polluters not selectively attacking a very small band of vehicle types.

To do so may satisfy you and the other antis but what are you going to say to your children in 20 thirty years time when they ask "why did you waste time banning 4x4's when the real culprits carried on producing pollutants at an alarming rate?"

Your lot of bigoted antis will be the "Dr Beechings" of your generation unless you start getting real.

Wasting effort on a trivial polluter whilst "Friends of the earth" could not even provide a spokesperson for the Guardian on the biggest single CO2 emitting industry!

Amazing

biggest polluters??????

i did ask for a list? you just came back with a site address that mentioned three polluters, and a total of 15%.

where is the rest, where is the other 85% of polluters?

 

[Steve L]

Oh do come on Clive.

Lutz quite right the only real credable reason anyone could give for buying a 4X4 is it's traction both in tow capacity and grip.

Now then as for the so called "double standards" you seem so hell bent on accusing me of. also the thought that I use frazes to wind people up.

WELL I THINK YOU SHOULD LOOK INWARDLY TO YOUR SELF AT THAT ONE!!

Yes I tow a caravan that is the maximum "legal" weight behind behind a family car but the don't a lot of people. Because of that I have been checked a few times by the law, but because i could demonstrate to them that I knew what the capacity ofthe car was etc and they weighed the outfit and found nothing wrong I continued on my way.

On the nick names for 4X4 don't forget I've owned several chelsea tractor's myself, and put them to good use towing Ifor Williams goods trailers on the highway at 5500Kgs total gross train. But I have to say that only 30% of 4X4's get to see real mud slogging. The rest do get parked outside the school gates and at the supermarket.

Oh of coarse I do enjoy good debate and it's quite funny reading and imagining the keyboards being pounded to death by ranting and raving snipers trying to defend the car stuchk on the suburban driveway.

How's the old blood pressure now?

I'm sure mine and Lutz's are quite normal. After all we can produce a measured thought out debate.

Chin chin.

Steve L.