Ain't life grand

[Lutz]

This is why I believe that we would survive outside the EU.
As I've posted before, there are far more intelligent people than me out there who say we would. There was a forum on this very subject where the panel consisted of bankers, bosses of industry, economists, politicians etc. and the general consensus was that we could break the shackles of subjugation and survive. It is surprising how much of a manufacturing base we still have in this country and like Lutz said, if the goods are competitive then other countries in the EU aren't going to ignore us or stop selling their produce to us, a country of 60 million plus. Also in 2009 the UK overtook the USA as the worlds leading financial centre and London is the worlds #1 most economically powerful city and #1 in the world as a commerce centre.
What people shouldn't forget though is the world doesn't end on the borders of Europe.

I wouldn't deny that the UK is a major player as a financial centre, but we are talking here about manufacturing industries. I have difficulty in understanding what their success or failure has to do with the EU. Where is the UK at a disadvantage manufacturingwise simply because it belongs to the EU? I hate to keep going on about Germany, but that's an example that I feel most confident talking about. The country is certainly as successful beyond the borders of the EU as it is within. Just consider the automobile industry where, for instance, VW alone has over 20% of the market share in China and trade between the two countries is currently booming. When I was there I saw a handful of Range Rovers, but that's about it (ignoring the occasional Roewe as an illegitimate offspring of the Rover).

 

[JonnyG]

back to my pedantic worst here, exactly who is going to be doing the work that makes us competitive outside of the EU? We already outsource a massive amount of productions to china,Labour is the biggest overhead one has to look at excluding maybe the materials,and nobody here in the UK wants to work for £5.50 an hour unless that is they are immigrants.
The EU certainly wont stop us selling our products there, but again will we be competitive looking from the outside in, if there is a chance that we from the outside could damage their economy, then make no mistakes we will not be as competitive as we are now!
Hurdle will be placed as they protect themselves.
I have already stated that many Japanese industries, whilst they might not pull out of the UK may well down size so instead of production here going up once we pulled out, those already producing here and employing 100,000 of our workforce would be cutting production as many our here because they can sell competitively to the entire EU, and not just the UK.

When the very British of British companies like Dyson and Triumph, out source to cheaper labour markets already, its sheer lunacy to actually think we could go it alone! Where exactly are we going to sell?, the entire world is now a production line, what are we going to do get materials from Malaysia make something from it and then sell it back to them! our labour costs are not competitive enough nor will they ever be to places like Asia for us to become an independent mass producer of everyday goods, to reship around the world. sure there are certain products that we can export,specialised stuff but that's not enough to keep millions in employment.
As for those bosses of industry! My god get real, when some industrial boss of a giant company opens his mouth,and says the type of rubbish repeated here, its based on the mega bucks he can make for his company! And not mass employment for the people of this country. we have lost over a million jobs to outsourcing around the world, sure the company does well, pays loads in taxes, but the British people still loose their jobs.
LB maybe you are right these people are brighter than you and[gulp] I, Really so how did we repeatedly get into these situations? As said on "the royals" TV programme "Brighter my ......"
And let me repeat again we have a vast amount of Japanese companies here, all turning up after 1973, if we don't have free trading rules with the EU, they will be enticed away from these shores,or in some cases cut backs will occur here, that's not speculation, it business...and in business nobodies that nice
If we ever did foolishly leave the EU, we would suffer, not the EU......

Over the last couple of years,I have repeatedly been entertained by post regarding the collaspe of the Euro markets and indeed the Euro currency too.!
And yet the pound is so weak, that tells you what the money markets think of us, we are worth 30% less than in 2005 and not just to the Euro check the Swiss Franc rates too, we are told that is good for export! My god a 30% drop in valuation of out currency and we still cannot export! and then you here them saying "isnt it good we didn't join the Euro"!
I dont know is it? we were worth £1 to 1.5 euros we now hover just above 1.1, the swis franc used to be 2.4 to the pound now its nearer 1.4!!!!!!! still cannot export but as a nation we individually are getting poorer compaired to our European neighbours!!
oh and we still cannot export, as the outsourced materials now cost us a dam sight more to buy than it costs our European neighbours because we are not in the Euro and the pound is weak..!
Please.............ask the so called experts why that is...........................

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I have difficulty in understanding what their success or failure has to do with the EU. Where is the UK at a disadvantage manufacturingwise simply because it belongs to the EU?

I'm sorry Lutz but read my post again. I didn't say our manufacturing is at a disadvantage because of the EU.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

I wouldn't deny that the UK is a major player as a financial centre, but we are talking here about manufacturing industries. I have difficulty in understanding what their success or failure has to do with the EU. Where is the UK at a disadvantage manufacturingwise simply because it belongs to the EU?

While I have read with interest the thread so far without making any comment the above last comment from Lutz has prevoked a final and once only comment from ME.
As one who voted NO to both the referenda we had on europe in the early days when WE had still got a good manufacturing base and a comonwealth of countries behind us to trade with, being part of the wider european state held very little benefit to the UK as a whole I for one could not understand the logic involved in joining.
But we did and since then the assets of the country have been stripped bare, not just from inside europe but worldwide I do share some of the concerns Elbee speaks of but I believe now it is far far too late to turn things around. Succesive governments from the early 80s have had the notion the Brittan was for sale and relentlessly persued this agenda. utilities like water, gas, electric, mostly to the french, fishing to spain, steel to india and china, ship bulding to anyone who could do it cheaper (not better) most of the manufacturing we had has gone abroad the list is endless.
We have very little left to base a sucessful economy on there is just not enough left without buying back the assets once given away cheaply and of course after the world wide resession dont have the funds to do it.
The notion that some have that we are still a major world power is nonsense the GREAT has been lost from Brittan and now we are just a minor influence on the edge of europe that has become a dumping ground for the rest of the world.
We are in the european super state now wether we like it or not there is nowwhere else for us to go, we just have to make the best of it we cannot secure our own borders anymore or make our own fiscal policy due to outside influence the world has got bigger while we have shrunk into insignificance.
This may be a very pesimisstic view but is realistic so NO we would not survive outside Europe not anymore we are in for the long haul and in the event of a UKIP revival and LB gets his wish with the question asked should we leave europe . I for one would vote NO again. this time to stay in.
And what sparked this comment from me, "I have difficulty in understanding what their success or failure has to do with the EU. Where is the UK at a disadvantage manufacturingwise".
What manufacturing would that be then?? Lutz.
colin.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Please.............ask the so called experts why that is...........................

Unfortunately they aren't members of this forum

Apologies for this report being from the biased

Express. This was first mooted by the Eurocrats some time ago with great outrage from the UK populace but it seems that our Eurocrat dictators don't know the meaning of 'non'.
Laughingly why would they need to employ clowns when even Herman van Rumpypumpy's sister says he's a clown and it's obvious that there are many others in the Palace of the EU Federal Court.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/244206/EU-wants-to-merge-uk-with-france

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

The notion that some have that we are still a major world power is nonsense the GREAT has been lost from Brittan and now we are just a minor influence on the edge of europe that has become a dumping ground for the rest of the world.
We are in the european super state now wether we like it or not there is nowwhere else for us to go, we just have to make the best of it we cannot secure our own borders anymore or make our own fiscal policy due to outside influence the world has got bigger while we have shrunk into insignificance.
colin.

Have a look at the Express link I posted ya ol' tyke

If they have their way we wont have borders because southern England will be controlled from council offices in some village back street in France. At least it will remove their problem regarding Calais and the illegal immigrants who are seeking asylum that they refuse to seek in the other countries they've passed through. No stopping any at all then

 

[JonnyG]

Please.............ask the so called experts why that is...........................

Unfortunately they aren't members of this forum

Apologies for this report being from the biased

Express. This was first mooted by the Eurocrats some time ago with great outrage from the UK populace but it seems that our Eurocrat dictators don't know the meaning of 'non'.
Laughingly why would they need to employ clowns when even Herman van Rumpypumpy's sister says he's a clown and it's obvious that there are many others in the Palace of the EU Federal Court.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/244206/EU-wants-to-merge-uk-with-france

I think this explains just how stutid unintellegent and deperate those that write for the express are and how gulliple those that read it are.

"Well done, Express, for creating an angry response to an article which is a travesty of the truth.
This 'region' was created 15 years ago, to help local authorities across borders to plan together when they wish, and to help put together joint bids for aid.
Local councils are involved, and there is no possible 'merger'.
Old story, wrong interpretation, silly headline

Fifteen year old story thats distorted by writers who think everybody is as stupid as them!

Quote.
"unfortunately they are not members of this forum"
Now that is strange, given that we all know the benefits of caravan touring,and the wisdom that comes with it, how strange these persons have never passed our way......

PS.
i think colin hit the nail on the head.

 

[JonnyG]

I find these stories of great interest, when one feds them into the equation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13256597

 

[Lutz]

I also think that Colin has a very valid point. Those that see the EU as the scapegoat which can be blamed for all that has or seems to have gone amiss over the past 40 years since the UK became a member have overlooked all the other changes that have occurred during the same period of time. Specifically, I mean globalisation that has developed on a grand scale over the last 20 or so years and extending well beyond the limits of the EU. It has resulted in nobody anywhere being able to control their own economic destiny any more without outside intervention, even if the EU were to cease to exist completely. Employment is no longer an issue of finding a workforce in a part of the country where the wage rates are lower but international corporations nowadays shift their manufacturing bases around from one part of the world to another as quickly as it takes to change a shirt. Unless we can offset this with higher productivity, we haven't got a chance, and that's something that not only threatens the UK, but all highly industrialised countries of the world. I have heard of some (as yet) isolated cases where it is claimed that even the Chinese are already too expensive.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I think this explains just how stutid unintellegent and deperate those that write for the express are and how gulliple those that read it are.

Hell you're a gem JG. You really are wasted in the job you do and I'm sure you could achieve greater heights in a career with a much larger salary. Have you ever thought of becoming an adviser to a government minister like Eric Pickles. I'm sure this would be within your remit because you obviously have contacts who inform you better on these matters than poor old Eric although someone like Cable or Clegg would be a better employer and more aligned to your political thoughts

Heh! heh! heh! Where do you dream it up from

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I find these stories of great interest, when one feds them into the equation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13256597

Ah yes, that great French company who owns British Gas. This is the same company that with EDF, another great French company, are due to build 4 nuclear power stations in the UK. I understand that Centrica have now bought shares in EDF.
Refer to the ol' tykes post where we now have no control over our utilities whether it be gas, electric or water.