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awning heaters
- Thread starter DRB
- Start date
We have never heated our awning and if it’s cool we put on extra layers or use a blanket.
And our regular magazines tell me caravanning is a green hobby. Well heating up the air in an uninsulated tent doesn’t seem that environmentally responsible to me. Still cutting CO2 emissions is really someone else’s problem.
And our regular magazines tell me caravanning is a green hobby. Well heating up the air in an uninsulated tent doesn’t seem that environmentally responsible to me. Still cutting CO2 emissions is really someone else’s problem.
I knew this question would start arguments ! 🤔
Don't see any argument yet. Differences of opinion maybe, but argument ?
Bottom line, from many previous posts heating an awning is basically a waste of time. The amount of energy required far exceeds the pitch 13/16 amp supply. Add to that that in general awnings are flimsy plastic sheets, heat retention is non existent.
Dressing up warm or simply not sitting in an awning on a cold night is far better.
If you were insistent on a heater, the only type would be "infra-red" which in essence does not heat the air in the awning but the object in the path of it's rays. That is in truth impracticable because then you would need one per person and there goes your pitch trip.
This one uses 800W, which translated into amps is roughly 3.33 amps. It would work but will not heat the air in the awning, just whomever/ whatever is sitting in front of it.
To put that in perspective, a normal kettle is 2000w drawing some 8.33 amps.
Good luck.
PS from my point of view, you pay for your pitch c/w electric connection protected by a circuit breaker, do whatever blows your hair back, till it blows your pitch trip!
Also be sure not to break park rules.
https://www.trotec24.co.uk/machines/heating/infrared-heaters/infrared-heater-irs-800-e.html?rc=5b89253657&rc=5b89253657&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1puosMWL4gIVL7HtCh1BbwZbEAQYBSABEgI2wvD_BwE
Bottom line, from many previous posts heating an awning is basically a waste of time. The amount of energy required far exceeds the pitch 13/16 amp supply. Add to that that in general awnings are flimsy plastic sheets, heat retention is non existent.
Dressing up warm or simply not sitting in an awning on a cold night is far better.
If you were insistent on a heater, the only type would be "infra-red" which in essence does not heat the air in the awning but the object in the path of it's rays. That is in truth impracticable because then you would need one per person and there goes your pitch trip.
This one uses 800W, which translated into amps is roughly 3.33 amps. It would work but will not heat the air in the awning, just whomever/ whatever is sitting in front of it.
To put that in perspective, a normal kettle is 2000w drawing some 8.33 amps.
Good luck.
PS from my point of view, you pay for your pitch c/w electric connection protected by a circuit breaker, do whatever blows your hair back, till it blows your pitch trip!
Also be sure not to break park rules.
https://www.trotec24.co.uk/machines/heating/infrared-heaters/infrared-heater-irs-800-e.html?rc=5b89253657&rc=5b89253657&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1puosMWL4gIVL7HtCh1BbwZbEAQYBSABEgI2wvD_BwE
I too am off the opinion that heating an awning is pointless, innefective and costly to the site owners. Consider the caravan club whose electricity comes with the price of the pitch. If everyone heated an awning, the rest of us would share the cost via the pitch price.
Some manufacturers are fitting an awning heater, which is just an extra pipe fitted to the caravans heating system. I assume that when the van reaches temperature, the thing shuts off anyway, but I may be wrong on that point.
There is however a viable option, from a company in Halifax called Willis and Bates (Bairstow Brothers). They are the manufactuers of vapalux Lanterns, as used by the forces and cold weather expeditions. Basically a pressure lamp that runs off parrafin, one fill ( about half a pint will give up to 12 hours light and around 2kw of direct heat. They work very well, I have had one for years. Only the ones sold for expeditions and the forces are called Vapalux, to the public they were BiAladdin (discontinued). Occasionally they sell slight seconds to the public at around 50% of the cost, a slight second being a small scratch or so.
I am waiting for the inevitable reaction from you guys in respect of ventilation in an awning. But an awning by its very nature is draughty and adequately vented. We used these things with the forces in smaller tents, they are safe. The heat they give off is incredible and very often it has to be turned down to a minimum. We also use ours outdoors for light when sitting around at night.
Its interesting to see the factory, I was lucky enough to be offered a tour when I went for my slight second. The presses used to make the fuel bowl for these lamps are the original presses from WW1 that made some of the very first battle bowlers (tin hats) for the infantry.
You can also buy these at a reduced price via Anchor Surplus £95
https://www.anchorsupplies.com/vapalux-lamp-unissued.html
The current list price is around 250 Euros.
Some manufacturers are fitting an awning heater, which is just an extra pipe fitted to the caravans heating system. I assume that when the van reaches temperature, the thing shuts off anyway, but I may be wrong on that point.
There is however a viable option, from a company in Halifax called Willis and Bates (Bairstow Brothers). They are the manufactuers of vapalux Lanterns, as used by the forces and cold weather expeditions. Basically a pressure lamp that runs off parrafin, one fill ( about half a pint will give up to 12 hours light and around 2kw of direct heat. They work very well, I have had one for years. Only the ones sold for expeditions and the forces are called Vapalux, to the public they were BiAladdin (discontinued). Occasionally they sell slight seconds to the public at around 50% of the cost, a slight second being a small scratch or so.
I am waiting for the inevitable reaction from you guys in respect of ventilation in an awning. But an awning by its very nature is draughty and adequately vented. We used these things with the forces in smaller tents, they are safe. The heat they give off is incredible and very often it has to be turned down to a minimum. We also use ours outdoors for light when sitting around at night.
Its interesting to see the factory, I was lucky enough to be offered a tour when I went for my slight second. The presses used to make the fuel bowl for these lamps are the original presses from WW1 that made some of the very first battle bowlers (tin hats) for the infantry.
You can also buy these at a reduced price via Anchor Surplus £95
https://www.anchorsupplies.com/vapalux-lamp-unissued.html
The current list price is around 250 Euros.
I have to throw a note of real caution into the ring about both Dodgers and Thingy's posts. I think Dodgers was toung in cheek, but to be honest it is not clear. Emojis do not necesarily mean the same to all people.,
And concerning Thingy's solution I have to disagree vigerously about his suggestion that awnings are well ventilated - SOME ARN'T and that means the use of any form of heating that uses oxygene from the atmoshpere and produces products of combustion into the awning is must not be used.
There have been well documenetd incidents where people misguidedly used some form of combustion inside a tent or awning and they were overcome by carbon monoxide with serious cosnequences. Some campers were killed by a disposable BBQ.
When you consider it is likely to be cold and probably wet when you might think about adding heat to an awning, its those conditons where you will zip the awning up as tightly as possible and the canvas is wet. resulting in minimal draughts and soden canvas that is to all intents and purposes air tight.
Grey's suggestion of using an infra red heater is the only one that makes any possible sence, no fumes only IR energy that heats objects and not the air.
However Whilst I suspect Gey had in mind the patio type IR heaters, there are others, and if you can find a MicaThermic type heater (Delonghi used to make them) these provide long wave length IR heating from a panel a bit like an old oil filled radiator. This type of heater has the added advantage of operating at a lower surface temperature that the visible light IR heaters and this reduces ( but not eliminates) the possibility of starting a fire.
THey are relatively light weight and can do an excelent job inside a caravan rather than a blow heater.
And concerning Thingy's solution I have to disagree vigerously about his suggestion that awnings are well ventilated - SOME ARN'T and that means the use of any form of heating that uses oxygene from the atmoshpere and produces products of combustion into the awning is must not be used.
There have been well documenetd incidents where people misguidedly used some form of combustion inside a tent or awning and they were overcome by carbon monoxide with serious cosnequences. Some campers were killed by a disposable BBQ.
When you consider it is likely to be cold and probably wet when you might think about adding heat to an awning, its those conditons where you will zip the awning up as tightly as possible and the canvas is wet. resulting in minimal draughts and soden canvas that is to all intents and purposes air tight.
Grey's suggestion of using an infra red heater is the only one that makes any possible sence, no fumes only IR energy that heats objects and not the air.
However Whilst I suspect Gey had in mind the patio type IR heaters, there are others, and if you can find a MicaThermic type heater (Delonghi used to make them) these provide long wave length IR heating from a panel a bit like an old oil filled radiator. This type of heater has the added advantage of operating at a lower surface temperature that the visible light IR heaters and this reduces ( but not eliminates) the possibility of starting a fire.
THey are relatively light weight and can do an excelent job inside a caravan rather than a blow heater.
Sorry Prof but we used these things for years. They are still used. The reason we no longer have an army isnt because everyone died from monoxide poisoning, we just cant afford one.
There are enough holes in an awning to generate a thru flow from around the mudwall and under it. If they werent safe, in our nanny state they wouldnt be used.
There are enough holes in an awning to generate a thru flow from around the mudwall and under it. If they werent safe, in our nanny state they wouldnt be used.
Thingy said:
It's been said before that we have one and chillax when the kids are chilling inside on an evening when it's a nice night even though we do wrap up warm , the heater is a little creature comfort , the awning is not air tight , I have a gap around the wheel and I haven't got limpits so it's not tight against the caravan wall so there is no chance of carbon monoxide poisoning from ours .
Craig .
Parksy
Moderator
Some caravan parks specifically ban the use of awning heaters, check the small print when you book.
I agree with earlier comments that trying to heat an awning is a waste of time, and may be considered to be a bit anti-social because other campers have to subsidise the electricity that you will use.
Personally I'm not a tree hugger, when the Americans and Chinese all convert to intermittent wind power and ride around in glorified milk floats then I might sign up to the 'green' agenda, but there are plenty of caravanners who would strongly disapprove of awning heaters, especially with the two main clubs.
We used a version of Thingy's Vapalux pressure lantern in the 1960s when we used to go camping in tents as a family for our two weeks holiday.
We knew them as Tilley lamps back then, often used by boatmen who lived on the narrowboats that still carried coal, iron and other goods on the extensive canal network where I grew up in those days.
They are a good heat and light source, and unlikely to kill you, but do you really want to carry paraffin around in your car or caravan, and have to pour it into the lamp with the attendant fumes and mess?
What do you think the caravan insurance underwriters would make of the remains of a paraffin pressure lamp and paraffin container if things went badly wrong, even if a fire was due to other causes?
I really wouldn't recommend using one in this day and age.
A decent fleece can be had from any market stall for under twenty quid, if you want to sit in the awning on winter evenings Damart make great thermals that will keep you nice and warm, and a wee dram always helps :cheer:
I agree with earlier comments that trying to heat an awning is a waste of time, and may be considered to be a bit anti-social because other campers have to subsidise the electricity that you will use.
Personally I'm not a tree hugger, when the Americans and Chinese all convert to intermittent wind power and ride around in glorified milk floats then I might sign up to the 'green' agenda, but there are plenty of caravanners who would strongly disapprove of awning heaters, especially with the two main clubs.
We used a version of Thingy's Vapalux pressure lantern in the 1960s when we used to go camping in tents as a family for our two weeks holiday.
We knew them as Tilley lamps back then, often used by boatmen who lived on the narrowboats that still carried coal, iron and other goods on the extensive canal network where I grew up in those days.
They are a good heat and light source, and unlikely to kill you, but do you really want to carry paraffin around in your car or caravan, and have to pour it into the lamp with the attendant fumes and mess?
What do you think the caravan insurance underwriters would make of the remains of a paraffin pressure lamp and paraffin container if things went badly wrong, even if a fire was due to other causes?
I really wouldn't recommend using one in this day and age.
A decent fleece can be had from any market stall for under twenty quid, if you want to sit in the awning on winter evenings Damart make great thermals that will keep you nice and warm, and a wee dram always helps :cheer:
Parksy
Moderator
The Damart vest and long Johns were proper wagon drivers issue kit when I was a tyro big wheeler, before modern type fol de rols like night heaters and proper sleeper cabs became common Thingy.Thingy said:
You haven't lived until you've woken up at 03:30 am half frozen at some God forsaken docks or industrial estate on the back shelf of a P reg ex-British Rail S21 Foden tractor unit, with frost on the inside of the windscreen, a useless sleeping bag and your Damarts to keep you warm.
Ill admit you have more years on it than me Parksy, thats a historical vehicle. My first job was taking pipes from Stantons to various points in Scotland, and usually backloading potatoes from Fyvie, properly roped and sheeted. My Cab at the time was an ERF daycab with crashbox that had been converted with a drop down board over the two seats. It was so uncomforatble, I often slept in my maggot under the trailer, location permitting. I remember first seeing the Eaton Twinsplitter and thinking it was something special. My next job on the bag lorry for Rugby cement, and that in the days before the baby bags of torment we see today. Day consisted of a long drive, and then handball 25 ton of torment, thankfully not alone. From there to bulk powders and thence to the continent where I remained, thankfully.
Still never succumbed to Damart for my scants. :lol:
Still never succumbed to Damart for my scants. :lol:
Thingy said:
More years than me to as well Parksy , I'm glad my bus cab is all heated !!
Parksy
Moderator
Apologies to the O. P. for the off topic reminiscences, although I have to say that a fibre glass truck cab was colder and a lot noisier than any caravan awning.
As the new guy the oldest bone shaker was always reserved for you.
The Foden had the redoubtable Cummins diesel engine and the Fuller 4 over over 4 over 4 constant mess (crash) gearbox.
Well before speed limiters, it used to go like the clappers!
It was a point of honour to use the clutch as little as possible after the initial pull away, utilising the torque break gear change instead.
It saved us from getting varicose veins and muscle cramps with no assisted clutch on the old museum pieces that we hauled mainly steel coil around with.
When I moved up the ranks and had won my spurs so to speak I eventually had a nice modern (for those days) second hand DAF 3300.
No more thermal grundies, it had a night heater.
Luxury!
As the new guy the oldest bone shaker was always reserved for you.
The Foden had the redoubtable Cummins diesel engine and the Fuller 4 over over 4 over 4 constant mess (crash) gearbox.
Well before speed limiters, it used to go like the clappers!
It was a point of honour to use the clutch as little as possible after the initial pull away, utilising the torque break gear change instead.
It saved us from getting varicose veins and muscle cramps with no assisted clutch on the old museum pieces that we hauled mainly steel coil around with.
When I moved up the ranks and had won my spurs so to speak I eventually had a nice modern (for those days) second hand DAF 3300.
No more thermal grundies, it had a night heater.
Luxury!
This good old chestnut never fails me :woohoo: :kiss:
If you look at the different fabrics and roofing materials it becomes very obvious the Prof’s view is very sensible. However look very closely at the genuine all year round awnings eg Isabella and you will see a marked difference. I suspect this is why seasonals use them.Less instantantly combustible than the gossamer ones . Years ago I had an Elddis that had a warm air exit from the caravan heater. This offered nearly 6kw of warm air into the awning when both gas and electric were used. Hence totally safe. Seasonals now I see do use warm air fan heaters.
Personally I am in the wear more clothes group.
Maybe caravan manufacturers should reintroduce the exterior warm vent again.
If you look at the different fabrics and roofing materials it becomes very obvious the Prof’s view is very sensible. However look very closely at the genuine all year round awnings eg Isabella and you will see a marked difference. I suspect this is why seasonals use them.Less instantantly combustible than the gossamer ones . Years ago I had an Elddis that had a warm air exit from the caravan heater. This offered nearly 6kw of warm air into the awning when both gas and electric were used. Hence totally safe. Seasonals now I see do use warm air fan heaters.
Personally I am in the wear more clothes group.
Maybe caravan manufacturers should reintroduce the exterior warm vent again.
I appreciate everybodies point of view on the Vapalux/Tilley/Petromax type lamp, and certainly you need to be sensible. If there is a naked flame, and ventilation, it will created a draw pulling in air. I can only say again, the forces have always used them, still do in great numbers and as far as I know, we never had any deaths from them. And again, arctic explorers uses these in great numbers in much more confined spaces than an awning. Yes, of course there is always danger from carbon monoxide, but sensible deployment should allow them to be used without issue.
Back to the job, my first unit with a nightheater was probably my favourite and the one I did most miles in, A Seddon Atkinson 405 with the Jake brake. That thing would pull all day and get you to the front of the queue for tipping. Remembering my second job, I was aksed if I could rope and sheet. Could I hell, but having seen a diagram of how it was done, of course I lied. Well, if you can, you have got the job said the yard foreman, go and sheet that flatbed up. Like a complete wally I set off to do just that. The sheet looked like a piece of crumpled paper and I set about roping it. Giving a hard tug on my first loop, I shot backward, did a backwards somersault down the bank, and landed on my rump in the ditch.
Out comes the foreman, near on wetting himself, looks at me and says
Well, I have never seen it done that way before, try this............. and gave me the job. I worked with him for years, a thoroughly decent guy and the man that taught me everything.
And yes, apologies to the OP but we are on a roll now :cheer:
Back to the job, my first unit with a nightheater was probably my favourite and the one I did most miles in, A Seddon Atkinson 405 with the Jake brake. That thing would pull all day and get you to the front of the queue for tipping. Remembering my second job, I was aksed if I could rope and sheet. Could I hell, but having seen a diagram of how it was done, of course I lied. Well, if you can, you have got the job said the yard foreman, go and sheet that flatbed up. Like a complete wally I set off to do just that. The sheet looked like a piece of crumpled paper and I set about roping it. Giving a hard tug on my first loop, I shot backward, did a backwards somersault down the bank, and landed on my rump in the ditch.
Out comes the foreman, near on wetting himself, looks at me and says
Well, I have never seen it done that way before, try this............. and gave me the job. I worked with him for years, a thoroughly decent guy and the man that taught me everything.
And yes, apologies to the OP but we are on a roll now :cheer:
Thingy said:
The major theme here is fumes from combustion, whether its gas, coal charcoal, parafin, or wood , they all need oxygene, and release harmful fumes, which is why only room selaed heaters are allowed to be fitted to caravans. I hope that evryone that uses naked flames understands the conbustability of materials enough to know how to treat it with respect, and to a large extent it is obvious becasue you can see the flame, where as with fumes, they're usually invisible, and CO has no smell and is tasteless so intially you have little or no idea that its present and slowley poisening you.
It is not known to be the silent killer without good reason, and why the professional advice is not to use open flamed devices in awnings and tents.
The reason I jump up and down about it when its suggested here, is becasue not everyone that uses this forum may be as aware of ther dangers as perhaps they should be. And also becasue whist we get the inevitable few who will tells they've done something for years without a problem, that is not proof its safe for everyone to go out and do it. Its offering unsound advice.
I can't stop you doing it, but I can bring the reasons why its not a safe practice to the forum, and if that prevents someone from being injured or even killed its worth the tirade of negative commenets from those who openly flout sensible advice.
The reason people get tired of this forum is because simple discussions develop into 3 pages of grandstanding. IMO make a point and let it go. it's called democracy and freedom of choice. BTW so far no one has mentioned the chemical formula of carbon monoxide, how will I know what to look out for?
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