EV Towing

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Nov 11, 2009
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No, just resistive heating. The newer versions do. That would make the low speed efficiency even better.
There’s a paper describing teslas latest heat pump model as 300% more efficient compared to the resistive system. Like for like battery drain reduced from 10% to 3%. That’s a substantial improvement by any standard.
 
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Nov 11, 2009
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I came across this link which I found to be interesting. See HERE.
Interesting but unless HMG changes the Law2030 required PHEV or EV and then 2035just EV. Buyers are mainly affected by electric charges and charging point availability. But Of those one will come down the other will go up.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Interesting but unless HMG changes the Law2030 required PHEV or EV and then 2035just EV. Buyers are mainly affected by electric charges and charging point availability. But Of those one will come down the other will go up.
To be honest I think the government is going to have to back down on the date and change it to 2035 or later?
 
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To be honest I think the government is going to have to back down on the date and change it to 2035 or later?
But not now that so many car companies have nailed their colours to the mast, with a number declaring all Ev by 2030 or earlier. You can’t just redevelop your design and manufacture mix in such short timescales. And all the while brands with unfamiliar and familiar names are entering the market for electric cars.
 
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But not now that so many car companies have nailed their colours to the mast, with a number declaring all Ev by 2030 or earlier. You can’t just redevelop your design and manufacture mix in such short timescales. And all the while brands with unfamiliar and familiar names are entering the market for electric cars.
Well Citroen did a U turn so maybe others will follown if they see sales drop as people still want cars with ICE?
 
Jun 20, 2005
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But not now that so many car companies have nailed their colours to the mast, with a number declaring all Ev by 2030 or earlier. You can’t just redevelop your design and manufacture mix in such short timescales. And all the while brands with unfamiliar and familiar names are entering the market for electric cars.
GB news today were talking about the West being totally reliant on Chinese chips in EV and ICEs. Sons firm have 100% committed to EV now. I suspect 50 % will succeed the rest will fail because of working distances required
 
Nov 6, 2005
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But not now that so many car companies have nailed their colours to the mast, with a number declaring all Ev by 2030 or earlier. You can’t just redevelop your design and manufacture mix in such short timescales. And all the while brands with unfamiliar and familiar names are entering the market for electric cars.
Most car manufacturers will still have IC designs in production well after the EU/UK cut-off date for other markets around the world.
 
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True, but EV batteries may have 100Kwh batteries if they're lucky. My diesel car tank holds about 60l which might be equivalent to more than 500Kwh.

I can sit in a traffic jam going nowhere much longer with the heater on :)
After about 24 hours, its all a bit moot anyway... But it highlights an astonishing feature of combustion engines - how inefficient they are. If you get 500 miles out of that 60L tank (about 38mpg) you are at an efficiency of 1mile per kWh. Mine does about 210 miles with 75kWh. 2.8miles per kWh. Otherclive (I think) gets closer to 5miles per kWh.

There is talk of eFuel - making petrol out of captured carbon using electricity. If you had a 100% perfect process for that, you would need between 2.8 and 5 times the source energy for the same distances compared to direct electric. And realistically, that process is going to be somewhere between 30% and 50% efficient. Thats an expensive fuel.
 
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Most car manufacturers will still have IC designs in production well after the EU/UK cut-off date for other markets around the world.

That’s correct but as things stand at present they will not be able to import and sell in Europe. It’s credible that UK could allow direct imports but it’s also credible that the EU could ban their use in the EU.
GB news today were talking about the West being totally reliant on Chinese chips in EV and ICEs. Sons firm have 100% committed to EV now. I suspect 50 % will succeed the rest will fail because of working distances required
But what about the major investment being made by US, Europe and Korea/Japan to reduce reliance on the very large Taiwan factory that makes the majority of advanced chips. Chinese manufacturing capability is far less advanced than the Taiwanese chips. But they are okay fir cars. Netherlands has just banned the export to China of advanced chip manufacturing equipment. So the world is moving away from very high reliance on China. Hopefully a more balanced set of supply chains will ensue.
 
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After about 24 hours, its all a bit moot anyway... But it highlights an astonishing feature of combustion engines - how inefficient they are. If you get 500 miles out of that 60L tank (about 38mpg) you are at an efficiency of 1mile per kWh. Mine does about 210 miles with 75kWh. 2.8miles per kWh. Otherclive (I think) gets closer to 5miles per kWh.

There is talk of eFuel - making petrol out of captured carbon using electricity. If you had a 100% perfect process for that, you would need between 2.8 and 5 times the source energy for the same distances compared to direct electric. And realistically, that process is going to be somewhere between 30% and 50% efficient. Thats an expensive fuel.
Diesel/petrol are less efficient than battery electric - but they're more portable - which is of course where big development is being invested, to make battery electric more portable - lighter in weight so less energy spend moving it and more range.

It doesn't matter that eFuel manufacture is inefficient - it'll be made using surplus electricity which would otherwise be wasted or turned off - renewables don't produce energy on demand.
 
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Mar 14, 2005
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... Netherlands has just banned the export to China of advanced chip manufacturing equipment. So the world is moving away from very high reliance on China. Hopefully a more balanced set of supply chains will ensue.
Philips (based in the Netherlands) were instrumental in developing the mass production of IC's and in fact provided much of the technology used in Asia to develop their recent preeminence in the field. Unfortunately it was a case of the student becoming the new master.
 
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Philips (based in the Netherlands) were instrumental in developing the mass production of IC's and in fact provided much of the technology used in Asia to develop their recent preeminence in the field. Unfortunately it was a case of the student becoming the new master.
It’s interesting to see how since 2021 Samsung have invested heavily in tge US for a chip making plant. Intel as well as investing in the U S are planning to build an advanced chip plant in Germany subject to some government aid, and they are also planning associated invest in Italy, France and Ireland. Unfortunately nothing seems to be heading our way. But at least chip design and manufacturing are beginning to diversify the life cycle from undue reliance on Taiwan fir advanced chips, and China fir less sophisticated ones.
 
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Jul 23, 2021
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Diesel/petrol are less efficient than battery electric - but they're more portable - which is of course where big development is being invested, to make battery electric more portable - lighter in weight so less energy spend moving it and more range.

It doesn't matter that eFuel manufacture is inefficient - it'll be made using surplus electricity which would otherwise be wasted or turned off - renewables don't produce energy on demand.
It won't matter if we get to a super-abundance of renewable energy. But we are still a long way from that, and until then, using what we do have in the most efficient way possible seems sensible.
 
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It’s interesting to see how since 2021 Samsung have invested heavily in tge US for a chip making plant. Intel as well as investing in the U S are planning to build an advanced chip plant in Germany subject to some government aid, and they are also planning associated invest in Italy, France and Ireland. Unfortunately nothing seems to be heading our way. But at least chip design and manufacturing are beginning to diversify the life cycle from undue reliance on Taiwan fir advanced chips, and China fir less sophisticated ones.

I think the decision to move away from Taiwan was basically using common sense taking into consideration that China wants to expand and include Taiwan in it s new empire. Everyone is learning from from Putin.
 
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I think the decision to move away from Taiwan was basically using common sense taking into consideration that China wants to expand and include Taiwan in it s new empire. Everyone is learning from from Putin.
I think it was covid and a fire at a Japanese processor factory that initiated the move to diversify from Taiwan, but certainly the actions by Russia and China‘s statements and actions have no doubt made diversifying the supply chains more important.


 
Jun 20, 2005
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Today my neighbour tells me he has traded in his BMW X 5 M for a new Nissan 4x4 Hybrid. He says it is fully electric, not plug in , batteries charged by a 1500 cc turbo petrol engine. He describes it like the IC 125 locomotives. If what he says is true then I suspect there maybe a glimmer of real hope for us tuggers without worrying about charging stops. I appreciate an ICE is involved but it sounds ok to me. Anyone in the know about these stand alone Hybrids please?
 
Nov 6, 2005
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Today my neighbour tells me he has traded in his BMW X 5 M for a new Nissan 4x4 Hybrid. He says it is fully electric, not plug in , batteries charged by a 1500 cc turbo petrol engine. He describes it like the IC 125 locomotives. If what he says is true then I suspect there maybe a glimmer of real hope for us tuggers without worrying about charging stops. I appreciate an ICE is involved but it sounds ok to me. Anyone in the know about these stand alone Hybrids please?
Range-extenders aren't new - the Vauxhall/Opel Ampera (aka Chevrolet Volt) was introduced in 2011 but was poorly received.

In theory it'll be more economical than a pure IC sibling because regenerative braking will recover some of the otherwse lost energy - and the engine would be running at its optimum load/rpm so marginally more efficient.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Today my neighbour tells me he has traded in his BMW X 5 M for a new Nissan 4x4 Hybrid. He says it is fully electric, not plug in , batteries charged by a 1500 cc turbo petrol engine. He describes it like the IC 125 locomotives. If what he says is true then I suspect there maybe a glimmer of real hope for us tuggers without worrying about charging stops. I appreciate an ICE is involved but it sounds ok to me. Anyone in the know about these stand alone Hybrids please?
All hybrids are as you say standalone, because hybrid means a mixture of ICE and EV. However don't assume that just becasue it has an ICE that it will still have the same towing capacity as a non hybrid or non EV. There are several factors that affect the towed weight limit that are not simple down to the fuel source.

I have so far been surprised how much car manufacturers do down grade the towing capacity of electric and hybrid cars compared o pure ICE equivalents. Theory suggests the better torque figures of EV and Hybrids aught to make then better tow vehicles.
 
Nov 11, 2009
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Range-extenders aren't new - the Vauxhall/Opel Ampera (aka Chevrolet Volt) was introduced in 2011 but was poorly received.

In theory it'll be more economical than a pure IC sibling because regenerative braking will recover some of the otherwse lost energy - and the engine would be running at its optimum load/rpm so marginally more efficient.
The Ampere based on the Chevrolet Volt was probably a bit to early for the British public, but it was a good car. There are two near us, and surprisingly used prices are quite a bit higher than the equivalent Vauxhall ICE. I think Vauxhall gave a long warranty providing it was serviced etc Was it 10 years or lifetime?
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Today my neighbour tells me he has traded in his BMW X 5 M for a new Nissan 4x4 Hybrid. He says it is fully electric, not plug in , batteries charged by a 1500 cc turbo petrol engine. He describes it like the IC 125 locomotives. If what he says is true then I suspect there maybe a glimmer of real hope for us tuggers without worrying about charging stops. I appreciate an ICE is involved but it sounds ok to me. Anyone in the know about these stand alone Hybrids please?
Not sure how it can be fully electric if the 1500c needs to be charged using fossil fuel?
 
Nov 11, 2009
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All hybrids are as you say standalone, because hybrid means a mixture of ICE and EV. However don't assume that just becasue it has an ICE that it will still have the same towing capacity as a non hybrid or non EV. There are several factors that affect the towed weight limit that are not simple down to the fuel source.

I have so far been surprised how much car manufacturers do down grade the towing capacity of electric and hybrid cars compared o pure ICE equivalents. Theory suggests the better torque figures of EV and Hybrids aught to make then better tow vehicles.
Strictly the Ampera is an extended range electric vehicle as its in electric drive 100% of the time. BMW introduced a similar concept the I3 early in its drive for electric cars, it only had a fuel reserve good for about 20-30 miles whereas the Ampera could be driven around the north of Scotland without fretting about fuel.

 
Nov 11, 2009
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Today my neighbour tells me he has traded in his BMW X 5 M for a new Nissan 4x4 Hybrid. He says it is fully electric, not plug in , batteries charged by a 1500 cc turbo petrol engine. He describes it like the IC 125 locomotives. If what he says is true then I suspect there maybe a glimmer of real hope for us tuggers without worrying about charging stops. I appreciate an ICE is involved but it sounds ok to me. Anyone in the know about these stand alone Hybrids please?
If it doesn’t have a plug in facility then what’s the benefit of fitting the electric powertrain other than being able to recover some energy during braking and using it during traffic. Surely having a plug in facility would be if benefit if it was charged at night or at work then more miles could be done without resort to ICE. What Nissan is it!
 
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