We ordered @ new caravan september 2021 for delivery may 2022 , we paid deposit signed paperwork the manager then said he had forgotten something , went to his office with our paper work & he had stamped in bright red ink ,ALL PRICES SUBJET TO MANUFACTURERS INCREASE , when we questioned this he replied we have to do this but it never happens , just been informed price for caravan is now £2,000 more , HELP ,thanks inadvance
New caravan price hike
- Thread starter hasbo
- Start date
I don’t think you can legally be held to what is essentially an unfair term. Particularly as it was stamped after you signed. (But proving this is something else).
But that is just my opinion. I suggest you have a word with CAB or a solicitor.
I think that the retail price of goods can rise before manufacture and delivery. But you must be warned of this possibility and have the opportunity to pull out in that event.
John
But that is just my opinion. I suggest you have a word with CAB or a solicitor.
I think that the retail price of goods can rise before manufacture and delivery. But you must be warned of this possibility and have the opportunity to pull out in that event.
John
When you sign a contract that should be the final document, and neither side can then vary the terms away from what was agreed by both parties, unless there was a variation term in the contract allowing it. Assuming the situation was exactly as you describe, there was no variation term in the document you signed but the dealer added one after you had signed it. That is illegal unless you agreed to it.
The fact you allowed it to remain on the document and you left the dealer ship with the modified document could be deemed to indicate you accepted the variation, and thus obliged to pay the revised price.
If it had been me - I would have immediately rejected and withdrawn from the contract within the period of grace before leaving the office as that change was very substantial and left you open to unknown financial liabilities.
Your only hope is that if someone else witnessed the proceedings as could verify your side of recall of the events. I note you said "We ordered". Did you have someone else there, your partner for example? Cold they also verify what the dealer said about we have to do this but it never happens, as this statement was an enticement to purchase against the potential risk of a price rise. You cold perhaps bring a claim against the dealer to cover the cost of the price rise.
You do need to obtain some formal legal advice on this one.
The fact you allowed it to remain on the document and you left the dealer ship with the modified document could be deemed to indicate you accepted the variation, and thus obliged to pay the revised price.
If it had been me - I would have immediately rejected and withdrawn from the contract within the period of grace before leaving the office as that change was very substantial and left you open to unknown financial liabilities.
Your only hope is that if someone else witnessed the proceedings as could verify your side of recall of the events. I note you said "We ordered". Did you have someone else there, your partner for example? Cold they also verify what the dealer said about we have to do this but it never happens, as this statement was an enticement to purchase against the potential risk of a price rise. You cold perhaps bring a claim against the dealer to cover the cost of the price rise.
You do need to obtain some formal legal advice on this one.
Parksy
Moderator
I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, a significant variation to a contract between two parties can only be introduced with the written agreement of both parties.
You can't be held to a document which has been significantly altered or amended from the document that you signed after it was signed unless you agree in writing to the changes that were made.
As suggested earlier, definitely seek professional legal advice and don't sign or initial any document until you have received advice.
You can't be held to a document which has been significantly altered or amended from the document that you signed after it was signed unless you agree in writing to the changes that were made.
As suggested earlier, definitely seek professional legal advice and don't sign or initial any document until you have received advice.
Did you use a credit card to pay the deposit?
If you don't get satisfaction from the dealer, who appears to have used sharp practice after you signed on the line, contact your credit card provider and ask for advice. You get considerable protection by using a credit card even if it's not for the full cost of the item you're buying.
Otherwise, as mentioned seek legal advice from a solicitor or the CAB.
Good luck with this.
If you don't get satisfaction from the dealer, who appears to have used sharp practice after you signed on the line, contact your credit card provider and ask for advice. You get considerable protection by using a credit card even if it's not for the full cost of the item you're buying.
Otherwise, as mentioned seek legal advice from a solicitor or the CAB.
Good luck with this.
The Prof says it perfectly.
A £2000 hike seems excessive, probably 7-8% of the original value? Notwithstanding the legal issue it is important to ascertain independently if the pricing is correct.
A £2000 hike seems excessive, probably 7-8% of the original value? Notwithstanding the legal issue it is important to ascertain independently if the pricing is correct.
Paullus does raise a valid point about the use of the credit card ( as this invokes the consumer credit act). but he goes on to say the dealer used "sharp practice"
Whether it is was a deliberate omission of the clause to gain the customer's confidence to secure a sale or a genuine mistake could be open to debate, but it was definitely illegal to add the clause after the document was signed.
The customer should have rejected the modified document at the time as it was very clear and obvious what the change meant. Its the fact the OP didn't reject the document that could be taken to imply he accepted the change.
But let's look at the practical situation. If we assume the contract of sale had included the price revision clause, the question is would the customer have gone ahead and signed the contract? In which case apart from bringing the dealer to task about his management of contract, what difference does it make?
Or did the dealer saying " we have to do this but it never happens " make the difference between the sale and no sale. I think it could be argued the comment was an enticement and critical factor in the customer decision to accept the modified document. It raises the question of what was exactly said, and whether it constitutes a promise by the dealer ( and therefore a verbal contractual term) that they will cover the manufacture's price increase.
I think you are probably stuck with the increase as the Prof says. Basically you agreed a contract price and if things remained that way you would have been on a winner. The fact that you did not query the red stamp added afterwards will probably mean that you then allowed the contract to be modified although if you and not then the dealer might have torn up the contract in which case you would have been in a difficult position as to what to do. legally the contract would still stand but it would almost certainly have required legal action to do anything.
I would like to know if the dealer had taken a deposit at the stage as until you paid something the contract was not completed, if the salesman took the deposit after the document was stamped then legally the contract was probably only completed when the deposit was paid as the contract requires consideration for completion.
The salesman saying something like "it never happens" might as the Prof says be regarded as an enticement, but would rely on him agreeing he said it, or it would be one persons word against the other. This might be a very difficult point to prove.
One point here though is that the dealer can almost certainly sell the caravan at or near the full price at the moment, so may not be bothered if you back out. If you contest the contract terms, he could probably back out as you are saying the contract was based on a misunderstanding and it is therefore null and void. What you do may depend on just how keen you are to get this model and may require you to take a pragmatic approach.
If you are a member of either of the big clubs they have a legal help line you could contact, or if not Citizens Advice might help
I would like to know if the dealer had taken a deposit at the stage as until you paid something the contract was not completed, if the salesman took the deposit after the document was stamped then legally the contract was probably only completed when the deposit was paid as the contract requires consideration for completion.
The salesman saying something like "it never happens" might as the Prof says be regarded as an enticement, but would rely on him agreeing he said it, or it would be one persons word against the other. This might be a very difficult point to prove.
One point here though is that the dealer can almost certainly sell the caravan at or near the full price at the moment, so may not be bothered if you back out. If you contest the contract terms, he could probably back out as you are saying the contract was based on a misunderstanding and it is therefore null and void. What you do may depend on just how keen you are to get this model and may require you to take a pragmatic approach.
If you are a member of either of the big clubs they have a legal help line you could contact, or if not Citizens Advice might help
As both Ray and I have pointed out to have any chance of getting the contract voided or cancelled you would need a witness to support your contentions, and to have good reason as to why you did not cancel the order when the dealer altered it.
Just my thoughts. Once a document is signed it is a legally binding document and both sides need to honour. The dealer can add clauses afterwards but they will nto be valid even if they show the customer the modified document. The original signed document is still valid. As suggested time to speak to a solicitor however I recommend approaching Which Legal Services which is free.
If it is a normal condition of contract, albeit unlikely to be used, I fail to understand why it was not already printed on the contract forms.
Parksy
Moderator
Generally speaking the law in Britain states that any amendment to a contract has to be agreed in writing by all parties involved if the contract had already been signed before the amendment.
There have been variations of this edict, but contract law doesn't usually rely on a 'he said - they said' scenario.
If you didn't sign the amendment, the original contract between the vendor and the purchaser should stand.
The vendor could cancel the contract between you if a reasonable time period between order and delivery date is likely to elapse. If the due delivery day isn't until May 2022 , 5 months would be likely to be considered a reasonable cancellation period.
It might be worthwhile checking the price of identical models from other vendors.
If you could buy the same make and model of caravan from a different dealership you could either cancel now and buy from the cheaper vendor, or use a price difference between dealerships as a basis for negotiation with the original dealership.
There have been variations of this edict, but contract law doesn't usually rely on a 'he said - they said' scenario.
If you didn't sign the amendment, the original contract between the vendor and the purchaser should stand.
The vendor could cancel the contract between you if a reasonable time period between order and delivery date is likely to elapse. If the due delivery day isn't until May 2022 , 5 months would be likely to be considered a reasonable cancellation period.
It might be worthwhile checking the price of identical models from other vendors.
If you could buy the same make and model of caravan from a different dealership you could either cancel now and buy from the cheaper vendor, or use a price difference between dealerships as a basis for negotiation with the original dealership.
The problem here is that this is stamped on the contract and unless you did something at the time I feel you would be considered to have accepted this, although there is a chance it would be regarded as unfair in court. Unfortunately even proving what happened is potentially hazardous as it may be your word against theirs.
The real problem is what you do about it, as if you really want the caravan, any dispute could end with the dealer attempting to cancel the contract on the basis you are not willing to accept it, leaving you to challenge them in court. That would probably end up with you getting damages for breach of contract rather than the caravan, assuming you win. Frankly I feel the problems in pushing it are too risky for the sums involved, and you either bite the bullet and pay up or just cancel demanding your deposit back. Not knowing the dealer, I do not know if there is room for compromise though if you challenge them, and paying the extra and then raising a small claims action for this might work, but nothing is guaranteed to work.
If you have access to free legal advice I would take this.
The real problem is what you do about it, as if you really want the caravan, any dispute could end with the dealer attempting to cancel the contract on the basis you are not willing to accept it, leaving you to challenge them in court. That would probably end up with you getting damages for breach of contract rather than the caravan, assuming you win. Frankly I feel the problems in pushing it are too risky for the sums involved, and you either bite the bullet and pay up or just cancel demanding your deposit back. Not knowing the dealer, I do not know if there is room for compromise though if you challenge them, and paying the extra and then raising a small claims action for this might work, but nothing is guaranteed to work.
If you have access to free legal advice I would take this.
Stamped after signature does not affect the original contract and that contract reminds intact and enforceable otherwise we would have chaos, however if the customer signed for the amendment then it is enforceable. Simple!
I di admit I have not seen this sort of argument previously but I am not convinced you correct. Allowing an amendment to the contract in front of the OP and him allowing it, does almost certainly mean he consented to it but there is some doubt. The problem, if you are right, still remains proving it and given the sums involved this is probably not sufficient for the cost of a difficult case.
What was never said was if the deposit was taken before or after the stamping, until the deposit is paid the buyer has not completed the contract.
Again there is the problem of how far do you take this if you really want the caravan. Getting into a dispute could lose him this, so this will also have to be taken into consideration.
We are not told the make, which is also relevant, as some companies are honouring the price on orders before the price rise.
The amendment is only valid if the customer signed the amendment otherwise anyone can add on clauses or amendments to a contract after the customer has signed. The amendment will not be legally binding.
If contested the onus is on the seller to prove that the customer signed after the amendment and not the other way around. A stamped amendment would be fairly obvious that it was added to the contract at some stage.
Normally if an amendment is added before the customer signs the contract, the customer would be asked to initial and date the amendment before signing the contract.
Parksy
Moderator
Consider:-
The security of contract means it should be clear that no changes to the document can have been made without it being obvious and agreed by all parties. This may be important for a number of reasons. In this instant the fact it was at the time an unknown feature that could affect the price is clearly a very important variation.
I was involved with a Quality Assurance systems for business that did work for the Aerospace industry, and the QA documentation did form part of the contact schedule. Being able to verify the validity of any page of any QA document was taken very seriously, and regular inspections of the system and documentation control were under taken by BAE systems.
It was part of the document control system that written documents (like contracts) were produced in close lined text , to prevent spaces where unauthorised changes could be made. Each page had to be signed by the authorised signatory (s) immediately below the text to prevent unauthorised changes being made post signing .
If a variation was required, either the page needed to be re edited and reprinted which would then need to be agreed and signed by all authorised parties, and the documents control record updated to explain the change and when it was invoked.
The other method was to the variation or explanation below the original signature(s) and this would need to be counter dated, signed by all authorised parties to show the agreement to the change.
Any document that had been amended in any way without the signatures to the changes is automatically suspect.
In the case for the OP it can be easily argued that an applied stamp with the price variation clause could have been applied at any time before or after the signature was applied but it should have been either initialled or signed by both parties to confirm agreement to its effect.
The security of contract means it should be clear that no changes to the document can have been made without it being obvious and agreed by all parties. This may be important for a number of reasons. In this instant the fact it was at the time an unknown feature that could affect the price is clearly a very important variation.
I was involved with a Quality Assurance systems for business that did work for the Aerospace industry, and the QA documentation did form part of the contact schedule. Being able to verify the validity of any page of any QA document was taken very seriously, and regular inspections of the system and documentation control were under taken by BAE systems.
It was part of the document control system that written documents (like contracts) were produced in close lined text , to prevent spaces where unauthorised changes could be made. Each page had to be signed by the authorised signatory (s) immediately below the text to prevent unauthorised changes being made post signing .
If a variation was required, either the page needed to be re edited and reprinted which would then need to be agreed and signed by all authorised parties, and the documents control record updated to explain the change and when it was invoked.
The other method was to the variation or explanation below the original signature(s) and this would need to be counter dated, signed by all authorised parties to show the agreement to the change.
Any document that had been amended in any way without the signatures to the changes is automatically suspect.
In the case for the OP it can be easily argued that an applied stamp with the price variation clause could have been applied at any time before or after the signature was applied but it should have been either initialled or signed by both parties to confirm agreement to its effect.
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Thanks for your quick replies , I’ve spoken to caravan club legal department and they basically said I’ve a very strong case and that i should mention the fair trade act 1977 , so well see. Sorry for the short reply ,thanks
Does an order contract guarantee the dealer will supply the caravan and is he obliged to?
If I was the dealer facing making no profit on the deal because of a manufacturer price rise, I would simply fail to procure the caravan!
If I was the dealer facing making no profit on the deal because of a manufacturer price rise, I would simply fail to procure the caravan!
I would think that there would be a contract between the manufacturer and the dealer regarding the supply of the caravan and it would be at a fixed price. The manufacturer cannot break that contract without penalties being imposed and there may probably be a clause allowing for a price increase which the dealer would have noted.
I honestly think the dealer is trying to pull a fast one and if this is how they behave at this point, it may be better to get a full refund and go elsewhere.
I suspect Hasbo was given a Fixed Price Contract. Variable price Contracts are also common place. If the former was issued initially without the rubber stamp I suggest it is encumber upon the Dealer to prove both parties agreed the change by way of signature. However the way prices are increasing Hasbo may be worse off financially going elsewhere. A bit of a dilemma😥😥
That is correct, but will they feel comfortable being tied to this devious dealer for warranty work and any issues? Just me but I would not trust the dealer further than I could thrown them.
I agree there will be a contract between the caravan builder and the dealer but we cannot be sure if this allows the caravan builder to add a price rise. This is possible and most people will be aware their telephone supply contracts allow this as an example. There is a distinct possibility that the dealer is pulling a fast one though as they can probably sell the caravan on at the new price f the OP rejects it, so they have nothing to lose.
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