JohnL said "The NCC and the IEE need to seriously rethink this PIR proposal".
The IEE 17th Edition are Guidelines and do not say how a test should be conducted for the millions of permutations of electrical sites and installations.
It is people with a vested interest from the Caravan Dealership workshopsand NCC who are bringing talk of removing fridges, heaters etc into the inspection.
As part of my job I inspect electrical installations on the Rail Network. These sites are much more environmentally unfriendly being subjected to vibration from trains and rats etc. It is only deemed neccesssary to PIR these sites on a 3 year basis yet there it is said that dealership inspectors could use 1 year between inspections for a caravan. I assure you that nowhere in the 17th edition Regulations does it say that every inch of wiring within an installation should be inspected as part of the PIR.
The IEE 17th Edition are Guidelines and do not say how a test should be conducted for the millions of permutations of electrical sites and installations.
It is people with a vested interest from the Caravan Dealership workshopsand NCC who are bringing talk of removing fridges, heaters etc into the inspection.
As part of my job I inspect electrical installations on the Rail Network. These sites are much more environmentally unfriendly being subjected to vibration from trains and rats etc. It is only deemed neccesssary to PIR these sites on a 3 year basis yet there it is said that dealership inspectors could use 1 year between inspections for a caravan. I assure you that nowhere in the 17th edition Regulations does it say that every inch of wiring within an installation should be inspected as part of the PIR.
Why all the worry when you can buy them Here
This is all it will come down to, you can tick all your own boxes...PASS
By the sound of it your van could be falling to bits by the time its five years old never mind lasting for twenty.
You will pull up show your cert, find your pitch, open the door, then it will hit you, everything has come away from the walls / roof, van is scrap ...what is the piece of paper worth now ??? in the not too distant past when it was easy to get a mot, that is what is going to happen again... how much ...where when ... sorted..and your van is still in one piece
This is all it will come down to, you can tick all your own boxes...PASS
By the sound of it your van could be falling to bits by the time its five years old never mind lasting for twenty.
You will pull up show your cert, find your pitch, open the door, then it will hit you, everything has come away from the walls / roof, van is scrap ...what is the piece of paper worth now ??? in the not too distant past when it was easy to get a mot, that is what is going to happen again... how much ...where when ... sorted..and your van is still in one piece
- Jul 15, 2008
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Ray C.
I am not in favour of anything that increases red tape or the overall cost of owning a caravan. All I was trying to point out is that this particular idea has very little going for it on the grounds of safety, when such a glaring example of how safety can be legally compromised, because of stupidity or penny pinching as far a servicing is concerned.
As I have been in the motor trade all my life, I have seen some truly horrendous examples of "Home Servicing" by motor enthusiasts. If people will take chances with something they use every day, how much further will they go with something they use 3 or 4 times a year. People cut corners at every opertunity, some don't bother with insurance, maybe they don't bother with maintanence either, who knows, but I have my own oppinion.
Steve W
Steve W
I am not in favour of anything that increases red tape or the overall cost of owning a caravan. All I was trying to point out is that this particular idea has very little going for it on the grounds of safety, when such a glaring example of how safety can be legally compromised, because of stupidity or penny pinching as far a servicing is concerned.
As I have been in the motor trade all my life, I have seen some truly horrendous examples of "Home Servicing" by motor enthusiasts. If people will take chances with something they use every day, how much further will they go with something they use 3 or 4 times a year. People cut corners at every opertunity, some don't bother with insurance, maybe they don't bother with maintanence either, who knows, but I have my own oppinion.
Steve W
Steve W
Will I never learn to edit my posts on Word, then cut and paste to this rubbish site, that can't even offer an edit facility.
S W
A PIR is a report and not a Test. There is a comments section. It is quite normal to write a comment such as " wiring was visually inspected where possible but trunking and conduit covers were not removed." { bit like an inspection of your house by a surveyor.}.
so john we also need a skilled carpenter on stand by to assist the sparky and may be a plumber and gas man just in case a pipe needs to be moved .lol.
Damien try this it is the 17 icn you want i have a book of certs. Glenn http://www.niceic.org.uk/en/contractor/section.asp?SECTION=20&VIEW=1
That is the official form from the niceic which is taken from the iee who wrote the regulations bs 7671 2008 This is the form any proffesional electrician would use allthough a generic buildings pir form could be used.All the forms contain the general information.Except the 17 lpn asks for details and test results for the hook up lead.
Inspection testing and certification is my job. I read this thread with great interest.
If it took me 4 hours to inspect and test a caravan I would have to shoot myself! 1 hour is nearer the mark plus 15 mins to write about it. Think I will go out and test my own van now.Then Lisa,s LMH for free
Inspection testing and certification is my job. I read this thread with great interest.
If it took me 4 hours to inspect and test a caravan I would have to shoot myself! 1 hour is nearer the mark plus 15 mins to write about it. Think I will go out and test my own van now.Then Lisa,s LMH for free
Damian
Moderator
- Mar 14, 2005
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G Stockton, although the form I have is laid out differently, it contains all the information the one you link to does, just in a more sensible format.
I know th etime thing is , or seems long, but having done the course and seeing what is expected, it really does take about 4 hours for a touring caravan.
I guess it could be cut down if you did not do all the requirements that we are expected to do.
I know th etime thing is , or seems long, but having done the course and seeing what is expected, it really does take about 4 hours for a touring caravan.
I guess it could be cut down if you did not do all the requirements that we are expected to do.
if i buy a new ehu lead afteer this test wuold the test be void wuold it be a retest or just the lead to be tested or any other part of the caravan that was tested .
Damian does the training you have been given require you to do r1 + r2 tests on all the wiring and disconect all electronics before insulation testing?
I ask this because the IEE guidence notes 3 allows you to omit the r1+r2 tests and calculate from the ZE and ZS results if you have the previous results which are normaly in the caravan electrical installation cert issued by the manufacturer which should be made avalible if the owner has not lost it.
I ask this because the IEE guidence notes 3 allows you to omit the r1+r2 tests and calculate from the ZE and ZS results if you have the previous results which are normaly in the caravan electrical installation cert issued by the manufacturer which should be made avalible if the owner has not lost it.
Dean no one would know which lead had been tested unless the tester marked the one tested.I can also see some disputes about the colour of the leads. (there is no specified colour for the outer sheath) just the inner cores ie brown blue green/yellow
Damian
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- Mar 14, 2005
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G Stockton, the testing all AWS personnel have undergone does not allow the omission of r1+r2 testing, so yes, every bit of electronics has to be isolated or disconnected, like fridge, charger, mains lights, etc etc.
Some manufacturers fortunately fit isolators in easily accessible places, like a plug and socket for the fridge, but many do not.
Similarly, some chargers have on/off switches on the unit, but others have to be disconnected.
Then comes th ewidth of any top mounted ventilation slots, anything over 1mm and which give access to live internal parts must be made safe to stop any possibility of a child putting a metallic object in the slot,,,,,and so it goes on.
Some manufacturers fortunately fit isolators in easily accessible places, like a plug and socket for the fridge, but many do not.
Similarly, some chargers have on/off switches on the unit, but others have to be disconnected.
Then comes th ewidth of any top mounted ventilation slots, anything over 1mm and which give access to live internal parts must be made safe to stop any possibility of a child putting a metallic object in the slot,,,,,and so it goes on.
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