Speed Limiters🤮

[Dustydog]

Parker’s car guide posted this. I thought after Brexit we were going to scrap these type of Euro crat rules 🤬

Mandatory speed limiters have arrived
Speed limiters are now a legal requirement for all new cars sold in Europe. This is an EU regulation which, despite Brexit, is being ratified into UK law as well.

 

[otherclive]

Parker’s car guide posted this. I thought after Brexit we were going to scrap these type of Euro crat rules 🤬

Mandatory speed limiters have arrived
Speed limiters are now a legal requirement for all new cars sold in Europe. This is an EU regulation which, despite Brexit, is being ratified into UK law as well.

You can deactivate them, but irrespective of our laws they would still be fitted as the makers aren’t going to make special models just for U.K. There will also be the data loggers so if you deactivate the limiter your driving behaviour is available should you have an accident.

I can’t get too worked up about them as anyone with a dash cam has their driving recorded. One post today reported that the members own data logger caught the Audi technician thrashing his car. So perhaps a bit like the curates egg.

 

[Challenger]

I think it unlikely that a volume manufacturer will make 'special' models without speed limiters for just the UK.
If you don't like the idea, don't switch it on !

 

[otherclive]

I think it unlikely that a volume manufacturer will make 'special' models without speed limiters for just the UK.
If you don't like the idea, don't switch it on !

Most of the subsystems are in new cars already with the various safety aids and linking them via gps and sign recognition, and navigation systems is all that’s required.

 

[RogerL]

Parker’s car guide posted this. I thought after Brexit we were going to scrap these type of Euro crat rules 🤬

Mandatory speed limiters have arrived
Speed limiters are now a legal requirement for all new cars sold in Europe. This is an EU regulation which, despite Brexit, is being ratified into UK law as well.

Carmakers aren't going to make a special version just for the UK so imported cars would get the speed limiter even if we didn't change our law.

Without going over the B***** debate again, we were always going to keep some rules the same as no-one thought that ALL EU rules were bad.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Most cars produced to day (virtually world wide) make extensive use of computer controlled features. This is almost a de facto situation, becasue when a car is to be exported to a different market, there are often differences in the local construction and use regulations the car needs to conform to. There are a couple of fairly obvious ones, the way the road lights operate such driving lights on or off. Turn signals and dimming of other lights, and probably many other less obvious requirements, all of which can be achieved by software. It makes sense to build the car with as many common parts as possible, but achieved the required compliance by installing a software version for the designated area of use.

Some manufacturers now offer software updates to refine the functions of vehicles or allow the driver access to previously locked out functions. These could be options that were waiting for local approvals, or it can be aftersales added options.

With the most recent models, many already have adaptive cruise control which has access to braking and acceleration systems, its a minor step to add the necessary GPS signals and data bases (Which some cars already have) to enable automatic speed restrictors that adapt to local speed limits.

For several years now at least two major players in the Sat Nav market have had stand alone units that signal when the driver is exceeding local speed limits based on an internal database. HGV drivers have had to manage with mechanical speed restrictors on their engines. It's not a major step to have speed restrictors on all vehicles.

Rather than bemoaning the speed restrictor, perhaps law abiding citizens should be pointing the finger at those anti social drivers who think they are above the law, and who consciously are prepared to commit to speed.

Regarding the concept that all EU derived legislation would be cancelled when Brexit happened... think again. The UK (when it was part of the EU) was actively participating in the construction of some the legislation, and it's highly unlikely many of those pieces of legislation will be withdrawn. I see a couple of new posts have been made since I started this, and I agree with both.

 

[Jcloughie]

Like OC, I fail to get excited about it. In general I like new tech and think it makes our life easier and safer. I have a small concern that future cars may have their speed controlled from the side of the road but I can't work out if this idea has potential dangers.

What do others think?

John

 

[Dustydog]

Our last two cars came with CC and Speed Limiters. Both very useful. I understand the latest SLs may be controlled by Highway devices or police etc. I am not convinced external intervention in controlling the car is something I’d welcome. Big Brother🤪. Hopefully they will also come with manual over ride.

 

[otherclive]

Our last two cars came with CC and Speed Limiters. Both very useful. I understand the latest SLs may be controlled by Highway devices or police etc. I am not convinced external intervention in controlling the car is something I’d welcome. Big Brother🤪. Hopefully they will also come with manual over ride.

I’ve not read previously about external intervention but anything is possible but like giving the security services a “ back door” to your phone. It could lead to car nuts installing ECM to thwart external intervention. A Wild Weasel type system. The mind boggles.

 

[RogerL]

Speed limiters are just a step along the way to autonomous travel - we're the last generation that has been able to enjoy driving.

 

[Johnb]

Speed limiters are just a step along the way to autonomous travel - we're the last generation that has been able to enjoy driving.

Not sure we will be the last but when that day arrives around 1500 people will be alive in a year who are currently killed. Who knows how many injuries of whatever severity too will no longer happen.

I suppose the costs of care currently are significant too.

I enjoy driving - well, in Europe.

I detest driving from Dover and round the M25 and up the M1. If there was some system whereby the car (and caravan) could be automatically "driven" I would take it for sure.

 

[Dustydog]

Clive ,
The entire system works on external intervention. Whether a revised RTA is needed remains to be seen. You have to accept any ‘external’ group , authority , person, will without doubt be able to manipulate the GPS satellite

 

[Parksy]

In a few years time when the majority of new cars have automatic GPS controlled speed limiters, those who override the system to allow them to speed will be thwarted, because roads will be full of traffic automatically obeying GPS controlled speed limits.

 

[otherclive]

Clive ,
The entire system works on external intervention. Whether a revised RTA is needed remains to be seen. You have to accept any ‘external’ group , authority , person, will without doubt be able to manipulate the GPS satellite

But use of gps isn’t new our satnavs rely on it. In fact to a large extent we are reliant on it for many more aspects of daily life than we may think.

One reason the EU developed Galileo was the concern that gps could be managed to make life difficult to countries or users that fell out with the USA. Britain is supposedly developing our own, but it’s gone quite recently. Your diagram shows exactly what my daughter and grandsons cars do already, but at present their systems just sound a beep if exceeding a limit, which can be deactivated. Your post at #8 said to me that there could, or would be more positive external interventions. Things like reducing your speed prior to entering a new speed limit not a bad idea if it saves you a ticket for excess speed. The police external intervention would require development fir them to take over control of your cars speed. Hackers have done this direct to vehicles, but how would the police effectively be able to hack into all future cars? Clearly the answer would be a back door portal, or just to modify local area speed limits electronically thus affecting every driver in the vicinity. Whilst hoping that the police pursuit vehicle has its system deactivated, and nearby fire and ambulances vehicles too.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Ever since 1865, when the UK introduced a speed limits, it can be argued that we have had external speed regulation. It was 100 years later when the national speed limit was introduced, and indeed ever since then more roads have had lower speed limits introduced.

Automatic speed limits is just another step to bring down the risks of motoring. It will make some people very happy as they will never be able to complain about having speeding points on their licences.

 

[Jcloughie]

Beats having a man with a flag walking in front.

John

 

[Raywood]

To the government the speed limiter will makes roads safer, so they would not oppose it. It may not be popular, but it is difficult to come up with a sensible argument against it.

 

[Dustydog]

If the Authorities decide to use intervention on speed limiters I wonder how much the infrastructure will cost the tax payer🤔

 

[otherclive]

If the Authorities decide to use intervention on speed limiters I wonder how much the infrastructure will cost the tax payer🤔

I don’t think they will have too, perhaps it will be illegal to deactivate it. Then if the car exceeds the limit or has an accident where the limit may have been exceeded the data logger can be interrogated. The wherewithal is already there to make cars limit their speed in that gps, data maps and sign recognition exist. The driver will still have to take responsibility for their actions as I know from my satnav despite updating every three months there are roads that it shows me the incorrect speed limit. It’s error being in the wrong direction as speed limits invariably come down.

 

[Jcloughie]

I don’t think they will have too, perhaps it will be illegal to deactivate it. Then if the car exceeds the limit or has an accident where the limit may have been exceeded the data logger can be interrogated. The wherewithal is already there to make cars limit their speed in that gps, data maps and sign recognition exist. The driver will still have to take responsibility for their actions as I know from my satnav despite updating every three months there are roads that it shows me the incorrect speed limit. It’s error being in the wrong direction as speed limits invariably come down.

I think I heard it muted that in future, transmitters can be installed which can alter a vehicle's speed. This may simply be when entering a speed reduction, even a temporary one. Say motorway gantries. Thereby removing the responsibility from the driver. I am in two minds. What about 5mph enforcement on caravan sites?

John

 

[otherclive]

I think I heard it muted that in future, transmitters can be installed which can alter a vehicle's speed. This may simply be when entering a speed reduction, even a temporary one. Say motorway gantries. Thereby removing the responsibility from the driver. I am in two minds. What about 5mph enforcement on caravan sites?

John

That’s what I was referring to in #14 which to my mind isn’t a bad idea and certainly for temporary road works that exhibit a mandatory speed limit it would be fine, as it would ensure compliance without the administrative hassle of keep changing databases. But given that newer cars have or will have sign recognition that may suffice to activate the limiter. But should sign recognition not agree with the gps database which factor wins! The lowest! Or the driver may excercise control if they are still alert by then 😂

PS in my experince motorway gantries with installed cameras already seem to be effective for all bar tge 1% . And they get ticketed fir infringement anyway.

 

[Jcloughie]

That’s what I was referring to in #14 which to my mind isn’t a bad idea and certainly for temporary road works that exhibit a mandatory speed limit it would be fine, as it would ensure compliance without the administrative hassle of keep changing databases. But given that newer cars have or will have sign recognition that may suffice to activate the limiter. But should sign recognition not agree with the gps database which factor wins! The lowest! Or the driver may excercise control if they are still alert by then 😂

PS in my experince motorway gantries with installed cameras already seem to be effective for all bar tge 1% . And they get ticketed fir infringement anyway.

Big problem if modern cars respond to reduced speed, but older cars, without the tech, pile up!! 🤭


John

 

[otherclive]

Big problem if modern cars respond to reduced speed, but older cars, without the tech, pile up!! 🤭


John

I guess we both face that one unfortunately even without auto speed limiters. 😟

 

[ProfJohnL]

If the Authorities decide to use intervention on speed limiters I wonder how much the infrastructure will cost the tax payer🤔

I seen to recall reading somewhere, the present costs associated with major RTI or fatalities is in the order £200Kper incident to provide all the necessary emergency services and subsequent investigations and inquests etc.

I wonder how many serious incidents have been prevented because of speed camera's (Sorry Safety Cameras).......

 

[Buckman]

I seen to recall reading somewhere, the present costs associated with major RTI or fatalities is in the order £200Kper incident to provide all the necessary emergency services and subsequent investigations and inquests etc.

I wonder how many serious incidents have been prevented because of speed camera's (Sorry Safety Cameras).......

Unfortunately cameras do not prevent incidents as they are there to make money! What is needed is more traffic officers on the ground patrolling the streets. That is a far better deterrent than any safety speed camera. Many people know where the sped safety cameras are located and slow down for that area and then speed up once out of the zone. Also most Satnavs have a list of speed safety cameras anyway!