Why do German Autobahns Flow More Freely than UK Motorways?

[otherclive]

Having recently driven to Krakow via mid Germany and returned via Dresden and Dortmund I was really impressed with the way in which German autobahns flow despite being as crowded as ours, and with many sections only two lane. The reason for this is that HGVs, trailers and caravans are often restricted to the inside lane with no overtaking allowed. Sometimes there were long sections where restrictions were permanently applied for set hours such as 0600-1900, or where there were overhead electronic signs the HGV, trailer and caravan traffic was managed depending on weather or traffic numbers. The restrictions could last for several miles, one restricted length was nearly 25 miles. The net result is that the cars, coaches and vans etc could move along more smoothly without being confronted by a rolling road block of trucks that is so common on our motorways. Also with the slower traffic not being allowed to overtake you did not get the rippling snake backs that affect UK motorways often caused by a truck suddenly moving into lane 2.
Anyone who has travelled on the M42/A42 or M6 north of Birmingham will know how disruptive the HGVs can be. In such routes I will often just sit in lane 1 and go with the flow as trying to keep overtaking with a 4mph differential is a bit of a no-no and it plays havoc with fuel consumption too.
With our plethora of overhead signs UK could, and should, introduce more active traffic managment which would speed up car/light vehicle journeys, have minimal effect on HGV,trailer or caravan journey times and hence improve overall utilisation of the motoway asset. It might even reduce accidents too!
I will now don my helmet and retreat!!

 

[Lutz]

I think you'll find that the restrictions on caravans not being allowed to overtake only apply in road work sections where all except the very inside lane are narrower than usual. No overtaking for HGV's only is generally on long hill gradients.
Maybe the traffic flow in Germany is better because people have learnt to use their rear view mirrors more to react accordingly in anticipation. It would certainly be foolish not to when, for example, HGV's carrying hazardous goods are governed not to exceed 80km/h while at the same time, many stretches still allow unrestricted speeds for cars which could be coming up from behind at anything up to 250km/h or more.
Having just returned to Germany from the UK, I made the same observation to you but the other way round.

 

[otherclive]

Lutz,

Having driven via Cologne, Frankfurt, Wurzburg and back via Dresden, Essen and Duisburg there were many instances where the overhead gantry signs were restricting HGV to the lane 1 (inside) and these were not all associated with hills, and on the very long one to the Dutch border (25 miles) it could not have been because of a hill. Even some of those that were advised by fixed signage were not always hills, some were due to frequent joining traffic near to and around cities, Essen being one example. I clearly felt that the restrictions were a great benefit to the overall free flow of the autobahns. On the subject of high speeds I was travelling at around 90mph on one of the unrestricted sections and was rocked by a BMW 3 Series as it went past, but I found that in the main traffic speeds were pretty limited by traffic density anyway. When traffic density increased it seemed some overhead signs were used to bring max speed down to 130kmh, or lower. Overall it was a less stressful drive than a similar distance would have been within UK, and I feel due in large part to better traffic management.

 

[weejock]

Agree with Lutz about the mirrors although I suspect it is more down to attitude. As I live in Scotland motorway driving is not something I do a lot when at home but if I am sailing from Hrawich as oppposed to Hull or Newcastle I tend to venture onto the M6 where it seems to be the norm to "hog" the middle lane and stay in the outside if there is any danger of a slower car being ahead at any point in the next 5 miles

Drive through Germany and most of europe for that matter and it seems to be standard practise for others to pull in and let faster traffic on it's way. You in turn are likewise expected to do the same. This makes for far more relaxing driving and quicker journeys although you do have to stay more alert than in the UK. They do have issues where some drivers find it harder than others to judge closing speeds when it is very common to have speed differentials often in excess of 60 mph.
I tend to put the attitude difference down to distance perception where in the UK no one is really travelling more than 300 miles so the idea that you will get there around the same time anyway is different from the fact that travelling at 30 mph faster over a 10 hour journey can result in getting there the same day or the next day.

 

[Gybe]

I lived in Belgium and working there and in Germany in the 70's. If you overtook on a dual cariageway or motorway and didn't return to the inside lane immediately you'd passed the vehicle you would get hooted at by most other Belgium road users, they would also flash the headlamps and wave wildly pointing to get over. Using German unrestricted roads in thse days the Belgium lessons were good as you could have cars and bikes bearing down on you at 200kph or more. French dual carriageway motorways and 80+mph speed limit also encourages the habit of passing and moving back over right away rather than the UK habit of lane hogging!
I'm sure free flowing German roads and others in Europe are partly due to higher speed limits and narrower motorways in many areas. On an unrestricted German autobahn a Brabus 6 litre M Class or G Wagon can surprise you and be travelling at 150mph or more along with the Porsches and other fast cars. A two tonne or so 4x4 hurtling towards the dimmest of drivers must have promoted good lane control and aid traffic flow

 

[otherclive]

I'd agree but over the last weeks in Germany I really hhad some difficulty going much above UK speed as the autobahns were quite crowded. Yes I could have accelerated hard but then would have caught up the slower moving traffic only to have to brake and then speed up again. The German drivers dont hog the lanes as anywhere near as much as UK drivers do but there were numerous occassions where on two lane autobhan we just sat with everyone else in the outer lane at around 70-80mph. But the big differencethat I did notice was when trucks were restricted to no overtaking the lanes 2 (and 3) did flow far more smoothly. On the one occassion we went beyond 110mph it lasted no more than 30 seconds before catching up the other traffic.

 

[kopite]

Hi otherclive in my view hgv`s on a 3 lane motorway are not the problem it`s the speed limit the faster you go the less time you are on the road there for the quicker you are of it and more space will be created.simples

 

[Lutz]

Hi otherclive in my view hgv`s on a 3 lane motorway are not the problem it`s the speed limit the faster you go the less time you are on the road there for the quicker you are of it and more space will be created.simples

But the speed limits for HGV's and caravans in Germany are no higher than in the UK. On the contrary, they are actually lower on motorways. It's only solo cars that are derestricted unless otherwise signposted.

 

[otherclive]

I think that on 3 lane UK motorways lorries at 56mph creating a rolling road block trying to overtake are very much the problem. I noticed that in Germany when lorries could overtake they didn't run parallel for miles on end I saw instances where the lorry being passed actually eased off to allow the overtaker to pass and get back into lane 1. The thought of HGVs having a higher speed limit would be a recipe for disaster.

 

[Lutz]

By law in Germany, an overtaking manoeuvre must be completed within 10 seconds or else the overtaking vehicle is deemed to be causing an obstruction.
I have just returned home after driving down the A3 autobahn and took the trouble to take note even more consciously the difference in driving between the UK and Germany. I got the impression that drivers are more predictable over here than in the UK, making it easier to anticipate conditions ahead. They don't seem to react quite as spontaneously to traffic conditions unless absolutely necessary. If someone is going to pull out it is immediately apparent that he is going to do so. If he's going to stay in his lane, you can rely on that, too. There appears to be less dithering. I'd be interested to know whether anyone can confirm this observation or not.

 

[Gybe]

If you are German Lutz I think you can get away with that

. I'm not so sure that knocking fellow Brits driving goes down very well or accusing them of more dithering than foriegn drivers.
But I do agree with your conclusion

 

[JonnyG]

By law in Germany, an overtaking manoeuvre must be completed within 10 seconds or else the overtaking vehicle is deemed to be causing an obstruction.
I have just returned home after driving down the A3 autobahn and took the trouble to take note even more consciously the difference in driving between the UK and Germany. I got the impression that drivers are more predictable over here than in the UK, making it easier to anticipate conditions ahead. They don't seem to react quite as spontaneously to traffic conditions unless absolutely necessary. If someone is going to pull out it is immediately apparent that he is going to do so. If he's going to stay in his lane, you can rely on that, too. There appears to be less dithering. I'd be interested to know whether anyone can confirm this observation or not.

"dithering" some on here would call that something along the lines of being prudent, or being careful. and not necessarly me.
Love driving solo [no caravan on the back] across most of western Europe but my noted times dont add up to what i think i am doing.
for instance i live 185 miles from the port of dover my little blue book states i took mostly between 2 hours 55min and 3 hour 10 min to reach the port over a decade and 24 crossings mostly early. yet i detest the journey.but my blue notebook tells me i dont actually travel any quicker through europe and the journey up to hamburg reminded me of the m25 on a bad day. even the A5 from kiel to basle has proven slow and busy the 3 times i have used it. the A7 in parts up to the A8 and onwards to stuggart again slow going thought i was back on the M1 in the UK. on the otherhand the A6 A 62 and A1 i think from hidlebourg to trier were a delight mostly.
and lets not forget that our motorways here in the UK are they the safest in europe by several differing measurements so the driver competents of uk drivers is no worse than anywhere else if indeed better.......just a thought

 

[weejock]

Having been up and down the A3 to Austria a couple of times this year I would tend to agree with you Lutz. You do however get a few drivers over there who seem to flick the indicator and pull straight out. Not much fun when your on the outside with a conctete wall next to the passanger door and sitting at 240 kmh. However after slamming on the brakes they are generally back in the middle lane by the time you get up to them.
As for the trucks they do sometimes bunch up but due to the longer gradients they have more chance of tramping another guy uphill or freewheeling to a higher speed going downhill. They also have a greater proportion of trucks under 10 bhp per tonne than we do here so long hill drags tend to naturally sort out the flow. If you look on the doors of the majority of artics here you will see badging such as 1846 or 480 etc with private operators normally opting for 500+. On mainland europe you will see more 380 or 400 numbers. Even supermarket trucks in the UK run a minimum of 420 which means everyone has roughly the same hill climb ability which is where bunching starts.

 

[Gybe]

In the UK we generally have a very moderate climate and mild winters compared to many European countries.
Accident and road statistics don't cover a lot of driving and road factors or numbers of vehicles on the road of countries in Europe. God help UK accident rates if we get the winter weather some of our European cousins endure, I don't think the accident rates in the UK are that special compared to Europe.
Some vehicles I drive have satnav tracking and the company logs show that European trips are completed with less hold ups and at higher average speeds and better fuel economy. When I'm driving my Satnav aso records higher averages in Europe. Work and personal experience towing caravans and car trailers in Europe is that it is far easier to cover greater distances and with less hold ups than in the UK.

 

[emmerson]

With regard to lane hogging, I remeber when dual carriageways were something of a novelty, they used to have signs that read "Keep left except when overtaking". Can we have them back please?
I've just travelled the three lane M4 from Cardiff to Newport in an almost empty lane 1, whilst the outer two carried most of the traffic.
Can someone please explain why?

 

[Steve L]

Pig ignorance I think describes what you saw Emmerson.
In Germany, if you break the law of the road, expect a hefty fine. The restrictions on lorrys to use the nearside lane and the time scale for overtaking both play a significant role in maintaining a much better discapline and mindset.
I can remember reading a local town paper while at a friends house in Dortmond. I asked about the center two page spread of photographs of cars showing their numberplate and the name and address of the owner. These were apparently publicity of speeders in Dortmond, who had not yet paid the fixed penalty fine for speeding. There is even a discount for paying early.
I thought this was a brilliant idea as when you think about it, most people hate adverse publicity and embarasement. The Germans have a very high regard of their persona and hate being embarassed or teased about their mistakes.
I think this idea would be brilliant on the motorways or even the towns. Most hauliers want to have a good reputation. Just think of how neat and tidy the stobbart trucks and drivers are and how their trade has grown, based on a slick efficient image. I think the threat of photographic evidence of bad driving and clear identification of the drivers by virtue of the truck reg and tacho records, would very soon change the mind set or give the ignorant drivers their DCM (don't come monday p45).
Then just think of the banter down the pub when "Johnny Speeder or Mr Lanehog" show up. "Saw you in the paper today mate".

 

[JonnyG]

Pig ignorance I think describes what you saw Emmerson.
In Germany, if you break the law of the road, expect a hefty fine. The restrictions on lorrys to use the nearside lane and the time scale for overtaking both play a significant role in maintaining a much better discapline and mindset.
I can remember reading a local town paper while at a friends house in Dortmond. I asked about the center two page spread of photographs of cars showing their numberplate and the name and address of the owner. These were apparently publicity of speeders in Dortmond, who had not yet paid the fixed penalty fine for speeding. There is even a discount for paying early.
I thought this was a brilliant idea as when you think about it, most people hate adverse publicity and embarasement. The Germans have a very high regard of their persona and hate being embarassed or teased about their mistakes.
I think this idea would be brilliant on the motorways or even the towns. Most hauliers want to have a good reputation. Just think of how neat and tidy the stobbart trucks and drivers are and how their trade has grown, based on a slick efficient image. I think the threat of photographic evidence of bad driving and clear identification of the drivers by virtue of the truck reg and tacho records, would very soon change the mind set or give the ignorant drivers their DCM (don't come monday p45).
Then just think of the banter down the pub when "Johnny Speeder or Mr Lanehog" show up. "Saw you in the paper today mate".

Sorry steve not sure your post made it clear who you were attacking? to me it seems in the main it was the haulage firms and lorry drivers? with the exception of stobbart! ha ha ha, please. frankly you are right about image having a part to play but seen plenty of, call it poor driving by stobbart drivers to know they are no better or worse than most haulage drivers. having said that see far more call it poor driving by people in cars, but then there are indeed far more cars out there in the first place.
As for naming and shaming though newspaper, do they still print newspapers?

 

[NickinFrance]

Pig ignorance I think describes what you saw Emmerson.

I don't think it is Pig ignorance, a few years ago I drove from Exeter to Stafford & back a couple of times a week. I tried to choose quiet times & noticed that when overtaking members of the 'Middle Lane Owners Club' the look on their faces was often one of abject terror, I think they were just too scared to change lanes.

 

[JonnyG]

Pig ignorance I think describes what you saw Emmerson.

I don't think it is Pig ignorance, a few years ago I drove from Exeter to Stafford & back a couple of times a week. I tried to choose quiet times & noticed that when overtaking members of the 'Middle Lane Owners Club' the look on their faces was often one of abject terror, I think they were just too scared to change lanes.

i think you might have a good piont there, have indeed court up with traffic in the middllelane and moved into the 3rd lane to overtake the long queue, only for some of that traffic to retake me a couple of miles down the road when i have moved back into the inside lane. then a little later when a queue forms in the middlelane have retaken several vehicles again....

 

[otherclive]

When I took a police driving course, no not speeding rehabilitation, the guidance was that if after overtaking a lane 2 vehicle you would be in lane 1 for less than 10 seconds, then stay in lane 2. I suggest that like all things inflation has now changed 10 seconds to 10 minutes+ Perhaps more PSB adverts on tv at times and on channels that people watch could help, and also use of the OH gantry signs on motorways. Something like 'only t***s hog the middle lane' might shame a few.

Missing word being 'twits'

 

[JonnyG]

When I took a police driving course, no not speeding rehabilitation, the guidance was that if after overtaking a lane 2 vehicle you would be in lane 1 for less than 10 seconds, then stay in lane 2. I suggest that like all things inflation has now changed 10 seconds to 10 minutes+ Perhaps more PSB adverts on tv at times and on channels that people watch could help, and also use of the OH gantry signs on motorways. Something like 'only t***s hog the middle lane' might shame a few.

Missing word being 'twits'

i would tend to agree about using the gantry to remind fork, that is until reading my ride mag yesterday.where an article by their technical editor pionts to the problem of road signs and how it appears we should be asking ourselfs do we appear to be relying purely on them,or do we look for other imformation?and how risk aware are we? just putting signs up on the gantry may not solve anything. sure short term some may take notice but after a while they would be ignored just like the signs are ignored by far too many to slow down on the motorway because of incidents roadworks whatever. if people ignore these signs why would they not ignore move over signs?

 

[otherclive]

You could have a point there but what is the answer. Middle lane hogging is addressed in the Highway Code DSA written test and as oral question on driving test so clearly it isn't working. Perhaps compulsory motorway tuition before being allowed on M ways as part of run up to the test but only with an approved instructor. But that wouldn't address the majority of lane 2 hoggers who are mature drivers who hold a full licence. Perhaps more police patrols but that would be wishful thinking.

 

[JonnyG]

I sure would love more visible policing but we know they are stretched already who knows maybe Vosa could be given more powers and as they now keep fines they get, or some of the money, then let them have that power maybe the gantry could be used to inform those
that need be that vosa can stop and fine.. ok i am wishfull thinking.

 

[emmerson]

Another quick question - why do people slow down when they come to the "keep your distance" chevrons?

 

[otherclive]

Catching up on back reading I note that in last Sunday's times Driving supplement there was an article telling that some police forces are now offering offending drivers who lane hog, tailgate, red light jump etc awareness courses instead ofa 3 point penalty and fine. The South Yorks and Herts police were very keen on this approach as it is stated that 1 in 6 deaths occur through what might be driving without due care and attention. But of course you need traffic police on the roads as some of these offences cannot be caught by static cameras. But it is a move in the right direction.