- Nov 11, 2009
- 25,233
- 9,158
- 50,935
The two Eastern Green link cables can each carry 2gw from Aberdeen to Drax in Yorkshire. EGL2 is scheduled for completion 2029.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 25,233
- 9,158
- 50,935
No different then when coal and nuclear were predominant as even then load had to be balanced and not all ran at full chat 100% of the time. Some required maintenance, some had closures due to breakdowns and some would just be turned down as their output wasn’t required.It does seem that the contributor to whom you refer is correct in their assumptions regarding the national grid not coping at times when the renewables have to be shut down because they are supplying too much power and at other times not enough. Are you getting your incorrect information from a Google AI search?
Since we're comparing energy usage make of this what you will - I'm happy with it at least.
House built in 2010 to Passive House Standards; No heating system; No PV panels; No Heat Pump; No EV;
MVHR, Wood Burner and Hot water solar panel installed.
Floor plan about 150sqm, volume about 350sqm and open plan.
Home all the time but outside quite a bit in the better months.
The MVHR keeps the average winter house temperature at between 17-20 degC when fire not alight. Outside air temperature obviously varies but we can see overnights of approaching zero. Just a couple of days ago we hit 2.8degC.
When fire on this is 20 - 22. Noticeably the Humidity averages about 45 - 60 all year round and this makes the air quality much better and a lower temperature feels warmer.
When we've been away for an extended period in the winter months the MVHR goes onto an away mode - 15mins on every hour. The house temperature has never gone below 12degC and lighting the fire will raise the temperature within 2 or 3 hours. Sometimes the sun may shine for a few days before we return and the solar gain boosts the house temperature up quite a bit.
The MVHR also means we don't need a tumble dryer. Clothes etc will virtually dry overnight on an airer.
The drawback of heating with a wood burner is there is no automatic system to turn it on.
Hot water is via two immersion heaters, manually controlled..
A 150l one in the bathroom for showers and baths etc. This is supplemented via the Solar Panel.
A 15l one in the laundry room for that and the adjacent kitchen. This can be swtiched over to take some input from the Solar Panel if we've had a good few hot days. Since these two rooms get the most hot water usage it means we're not heating up and wasting a larger amount of water than we need.
In the summer time we roast as the house temperature can be over 35degC at times but we can open windows to dissipate some of this. Problem occurs at night sometimes when bedroom temperature hits 28degC and we can't open a window since its midge season. Later MVHR systems had a summer bypass which would at least let some cooler air in but ours doesn't.
House built in 2010 to Passive House Standards; No heating system; No PV panels; No Heat Pump; No EV;
MVHR, Wood Burner and Hot water solar panel installed.
Floor plan about 150sqm, volume about 350sqm and open plan.
Home all the time but outside quite a bit in the better months.
- Average Electricity over 15 years 3796KWh per year. Current billing £50 per month but currently in credit by £163
- Gas usage only started about 10 years ago - 1.5 x 19kg propane per year - say about £75
- Logs - hard to measure as they don't have a smart log meter - approx £450 per year
- Hot Water Solar Panel runs on average 638 hours per year but its hard to tell what the energy input is since it only needs a +6degC difference between the collector temperature and the tank temperature. I reckon it paid for itself in about 5-6 years.
The MVHR keeps the average winter house temperature at between 17-20 degC when fire not alight. Outside air temperature obviously varies but we can see overnights of approaching zero. Just a couple of days ago we hit 2.8degC.
When fire on this is 20 - 22. Noticeably the Humidity averages about 45 - 60 all year round and this makes the air quality much better and a lower temperature feels warmer.
When we've been away for an extended period in the winter months the MVHR goes onto an away mode - 15mins on every hour. The house temperature has never gone below 12degC and lighting the fire will raise the temperature within 2 or 3 hours. Sometimes the sun may shine for a few days before we return and the solar gain boosts the house temperature up quite a bit.
The MVHR also means we don't need a tumble dryer. Clothes etc will virtually dry overnight on an airer.
The drawback of heating with a wood burner is there is no automatic system to turn it on.
Hot water is via two immersion heaters, manually controlled..
A 150l one in the bathroom for showers and baths etc. This is supplemented via the Solar Panel.
A 15l one in the laundry room for that and the adjacent kitchen. This can be swtiched over to take some input from the Solar Panel if we've had a good few hot days. Since these two rooms get the most hot water usage it means we're not heating up and wasting a larger amount of water than we need.
In the summer time we roast as the house temperature can be over 35degC at times but we can open windows to dissipate some of this. Problem occurs at night sometimes when bedroom temperature hits 28degC and we can't open a window since its midge season. Later MVHR systems had a summer bypass which would at least let some cooler air in but ours doesn't.
- Jul 23, 2021
- 1,074
- 1,018
- 5,435
Wind power has cut £104bn from UK energy costs since 2010, study finds
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...t-uk-energy-costs-ucl-study?CMP=share_btn_url
Wind is saving you money, whether you believe it or not.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 25,233
- 9,158
- 50,935
Once again a call for reform of the energy market to detach gas from affecting electricity prices. Without such reform consumers will not see the benefits of renewables despite there being one at national level. One think tank basically said though that doing so would inevitably lead to a reduction in investment in gas and loss of jobs in the sector. Outcry of pain. Whilst acknowledging that employment vacancies in the renewables and electric infrastructure would rise. Methinks Government doesn’t want the confrontation, rather install more renewables and nuclear until the gas generators of electricity see dwindling returns and leave the market place until a balance is established.
- Jul 18, 2017
- 16,522
- 5,297
- 50,935
- Nov 11, 2009
- 25,233
- 9,158
- 50,935
The study reported by The Guardian was issued by University College London three days ago. Here is the original, and if you compare the open source document with The Guardian's article there has been no journalistic licence. The study at the lower link is now out for Peer Review.
Wind power delivers £104 billion net benefit to UK consumers
UK investment in wind energy generated a net financial benefit of more than £100bn for energy consumers between 2010 and 2023, challenging misconceptions about the cost of the green energy transition, a new UCL study has shown.
Modelling the long-term financial benefits of UK investment in wind energy generation
This study presents new evidence of the financial impact of wind generation on the UK energy market, challenging the idea that sustainability, security, and affordability, are always in conflict. From 2010 to 2023, wind power delivered a net benefit of £104.3 billion to UK consumers—£14.2...
- Dec 27, 2022
- 592
- 428
- 2,135
Interesting on the MVHR Sounds an exceptional piece of kit.
We have solar thermal here with 300 litre hot tank, means that for 7-8 months of the year we have no need for hot water heating from gas or electric. Even the other four months the gas is only heating the top half of the tank which has had some heating from the thermal.
The immersion only gets used when the unit price is under 5p* if we need it, or when the unit price is negative any time whether we need the water heating or not.😲
* Above 5p it's cheaper to use gas to heat the water.
When we built the house two important factors were, High Levels of Insulation and Low Air Permeability i.e low air leaks.
No point in having great insulation if there are many holes for the heat to escape through.
At the time Building Regs were calling for a test figure of 10 for Air Permeability. Surveys suggested that in reality new housing stock was lucky to acheive 14 and there was no mandate to do testing anyway.
Passive House rules called for a test figure of 0.9 but we could only get the builder to sign up to 2. When we ran the test we got 1.2. Later we plugged some of the leaks so probably got lower still.
Of course if you have a pretty air tight house then problems with air quality come in with the potential for condensation and mould. This is where the MVHR comes in. It replenishes the whole house air at a nominal 2.5 times per hour. Since you don't want to lose any internal heat through the exhaust air going out and colder fresh air coming in, the MVHR has a heat exchanger which has an efficiency well above 90%.
Although not really a dehumidifier it does some of the job which makes for a pleasant atmosphere inside and dries the washing
At one point MVHRs were supposed to be installed in all new builds but I think building regs got changed to just specify air change levels through whatever means and I think builders just went for trickle vents in windows. Air tightness testing was also supposed to be done but again I don't think it became standard. Its an interesting process to watch.
No point in having great insulation if there are many holes for the heat to escape through.
At the time Building Regs were calling for a test figure of 10 for Air Permeability. Surveys suggested that in reality new housing stock was lucky to acheive 14 and there was no mandate to do testing anyway.
Passive House rules called for a test figure of 0.9 but we could only get the builder to sign up to 2. When we ran the test we got 1.2. Later we plugged some of the leaks so probably got lower still.
Of course if you have a pretty air tight house then problems with air quality come in with the potential for condensation and mould. This is where the MVHR comes in. It replenishes the whole house air at a nominal 2.5 times per hour. Since you don't want to lose any internal heat through the exhaust air going out and colder fresh air coming in, the MVHR has a heat exchanger which has an efficiency well above 90%.
Although not really a dehumidifier it does some of the job which makes for a pleasant atmosphere inside and dries the washing
At one point MVHRs were supposed to be installed in all new builds but I think building regs got changed to just specify air change levels through whatever means and I think builders just went for trickle vents in windows. Air tightness testing was also supposed to be done but again I don't think it became standard. Its an interesting process to watch.
In 2008 we built a large 4 bedroom environmentally friendly timber house in Powys Wales, we insulated with 150mm warm cell to all wall and 300mm in the loft space. On the ground floor underfloor heating, upstairs radiators, the downside LPG gas, however our heating bill was less than £300, at that time we received £300 yearly grant for having a useless solar heat exchanger panels.
The best we could achieve was 1.5, we also went around the douglass fir timber window adding additional seals after the smoke test. In 2017 we moved back to Staffordshire to a new built bungalow with 75mm cavity insulation, to improve it efficiency we increased the loft insulation, all led light, solar panels and battery. EV charger and PHEV.
The best we could achieve was 1.5, we also went around the douglass fir timber window adding additional seals after the smoke test. In 2017 we moved back to Staffordshire to a new built bungalow with 75mm cavity insulation, to improve it efficiency we increased the loft insulation, all led light, solar panels and battery. EV charger and PHEV.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 25,233
- 9,158
- 50,935
I doubt the average new build developer would get anywhere near the air tightness required to benefit from MVHR. Pity as the feature is especially beneficial. In my case I’d have an uphill struggle persuading my wife that it’s not necessary to throw windows open to get rid of the bad ions.When we built the house two important factors were, High Levels of Insulation and Low Air Permeability i.e low air leaks.
No point in having great insulation if there are many holes for the heat to escape through.
At the time Building Regs were calling for a test figure of 10 for Air Permeability. Surveys suggested that in reality new housing stock was lucky to acheive 14 and there was no mandate to do testing anyway.
Passive House rules called for a test figure of 0.9 but we could only get the builder to sign up to 2. When we ran the test we got 1.2. Later we plugged some of the leaks so probably got lower still.
Of course if you have a pretty air tight house then problems with air quality come in with the potential for condensation and mould. This is where the MVHR comes in. It replenishes the whole house air at a nominal 2.5 times per hour. Since you don't want to lose any internal heat through the exhaust air going out and colder fresh air coming in, the MVHR has a heat exchanger which has an efficiency well above 90%.
Although not really a dehumidifier it does some of the job which makes for a pleasant atmosphere inside and dries the washing
At one point MVHRs were supposed to be installed in all new builds but I think building regs got changed to just specify air change levels through whatever means and I think builders just went for trickle vents in windows. Air tightness testing was also supposed to be done but again I don't think it became standard. Its an interesting process to watch.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 25,233
- 9,158
- 50,935
The various post have got me thinking, we live in a village at the end of a grid , our heat is gas fired but requires electricity to run it. Fortunately I have a 1.5kW petrol generator I use for my work so could hook that up and recently bought a 280Ahr battery for when going off grid in the caravan so just need to buy a 3kW inverter so I can supplement the generator.
- Jul 15, 2008
- 3,906
- 1,094
- 20,935
Help me out here....
Do solar panels produce electricity during the hours of darkness?
Do wind turbines produce electricity all the time even when there is no wind?
Can electricity be stored to any great extent?
Does the total load on the grid have to be met 365 24/7 to avoid black outs?
Are gas fired power stations currently utilised to provide the power that is needed when all other sources are insufficient ?
Do the private owners of gas power stations need to make a profit to avoid shutting them down?
Isn't the trade off that governs gas rices to avoid black outs?
Just asking?
Do solar panels produce electricity during the hours of darkness?
Do wind turbines produce electricity all the time even when there is no wind?
Can electricity be stored to any great extent?
Does the total load on the grid have to be met 365 24/7 to avoid black outs?
Are gas fired power stations currently utilised to provide the power that is needed when all other sources are insufficient ?
Do the private owners of gas power stations need to make a profit to avoid shutting them down?
Isn't the trade off that governs gas rices to avoid black outs?
Just asking?
The National Grid has had pumped storage schemes and hydro-electric schemes for many years - these can store energy when excess is being produced and release it into the Grid when needed - in addition there's increasing investment in battery schemes, both large scale and for individual home owners.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 25,233
- 9,158
- 50,935
I suspect you already know the answers to your questions. But you cannot ignore the fact that renewables are increasingly providing the greater part of U.K. electricity needs, and looking at it over 12 monthly periods (See Gridwatch) gas usage has decreased. But I’m not aware of anyone on the forum saying at present there’s no need for gas generated electricity so I don’t understand this entrenched attitude to dark nights and windless days.
At present we are 85% carbon neutral
and exporting power to Europe. Is that a bad thing?
Last edited:
- Jul 18, 2017
- 16,522
- 5,297
- 50,935
What is common is the following scenario. For example, a mine/manufacturer uses 100000kwh annually. They are allocated this amount and the grid is "adjusted" for this amount. However the entity in question does not use the 100000kwh and only uses 50000kwh. The remainder is then "sold" back to the grid via the supplier and supplied to other entities. It is a lot more complicated than I have written, but that is the general gist. It is another way of "Storage"
Basically a large extractor fan is installed in a doorway. It has sensors for outside and inside air pressure. The fan is controlled by a computer.
The test calls for set differential between the outside and insider air pressures. The fan speed is adjusted to ensure that the differential specified is maintained. How hard the fan works to acheive this is the measure of the Air Permeability, which the computer calculates.
What was interesting was that each of our wall panels is covered in a silver reflective foil that's just stapled in set places. When the test was running the foil could clearly be seen being pulled away from the walls. Not enough to strip it fortuntately.
The test is done as soon as the house is weather tight as you don't want to have to strip back internal finishing if a problem is found. Fortunately we got it right the first time.
MVHR photos at the end
- Mar 14, 2005
- 19,161
- 4,363
- 50,935
This is a prime example where the Grid has planned to cover an expected demand, and by doing so has avoided power cuts!
- Jul 18, 2017
- 16,522
- 5,297
- 50,935
I apologise if I did not make it clear, but as said it is a extremely complicated process how the electric is bought and sold and there are big thick manuals on each process.. There is no way the national grid would know that there could be a surplus so cannot plan ahead.
In addition, that surplus could be allocated to any part of the UK except NI. It is a supplier that buys back the surplus to sell onto other users. The surplus usually occurs when the mine or manufacturer cut back or shut down.
No wonder our electric costs so much as everyone needs to get a cut from the cost of a kwh and the standing charge. At least several or more organisations are involved.
In an ideal world all commercial and domestic properties would have solar and battery storage, EV vehicle would have directional chargers. It a shame small domestic wind turbines are so expensive and inefficient along with very strict planning rules, it all helps.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 25,233
- 9,158
- 50,935
The grid has been managing and balancing demand ever since it was set up. Prediction of an increased demand such as half time or full time at a major televised event would lead to additional generating resources being placed on standby ready to react quickly. The pumped hydro at Dinorwic in north wales was another way to meet a rising demand. Gas stations also fulfill that need if other sources aren’t sufficient.
- Mar 14, 2005
- 19,161
- 4,363
- 50,935
Exactly. And so far despite the dire warnings we have seen on this forum, the system hasn't crashed becasue of the number of EV's and heat pumps that have been added, a point the naysayers seem incapable of understanding or accepting that given the continual work that both the grid and generators do in developing their systems, their systems will adapt and improve to accommodate future uptake of both EV's and Heat pumps.
It is very unlikely there will be wide spread power outs caused by the charging of EV's or the use of heat pumps.
Half the problem is some people still live in the Middle Ages they don't have the cerebral capacity to except progress and change.
Just look at technology for instance medical advancements, changes is coming or be left behind.
Just look at technology for instance medical advancements, changes is coming or be left behind.
"Change is inevitable, progress is optional" a quote by Tony Robbins
It's good to challenge change - as not all change is beneficial.
Facebook
Twitter