An outbreak of common sense at last

[otherclive]

From 2026 EURO NCAP tests will not give a car five stars if it is too reliant on touch screen for a range of basic controls. The efforts to get drivers away from their mobile phones is being undermined by the distraction of having to use a touch screen to perform basic driving functions. The latest VW ID7 requires the driver to go into a sub menu to adjust mirrors or turn rear screen heater on. Distraction is increasingly seen as a growing source of accidents.

Here are the outline functions to be controlled by tactile methods. Not saying anything about voice control of basic functions. But the problem there is there are no common standards for the instruction phrases, so changing cars, using hire cars etc can be different in their control phrases.

Under the rules, a vehicle can only score a maximum five-star crash test rating if it has basic control buttons, stalks or dials for five critical tasks: indicating directions, triggering hazard lights, sounding the horn, operating windscreen wipers and activating the eCall SOS function, which automatically calls the emergency services in the event of a serious collision.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Yeah but who's going to teach the youngsters how to operate buttons and flick switches? 🤔

 

[otherclive]

Yeah but who's going to teach the youngsters how to operate buttons and flick switches? 🤔

From watching my grandkids they are able to pick things up very quickly, and I think you underestimate their nouse. For what’s worth my grandson doesn’t rate his Tesla Model Y as compared to his Five series PHEV. The BMW has some tactile controls and a HUD.

 

[JTQ]

"An outbreak of common sense at last", title threw me, that is a misnomer if ever there was!

But great to hear sense is coming back to those basic "in car" functions, IMO the use of touch screens there was a case of technology could do it, not even addressing if it "should".

 

[otherclive]

"An outbreak of common sense at last", title threw me, that is a misnomer if ever there was!

But great to hear sense is coming back to those basic "in car" functions, IMO the use of touch screens there was a case of technology could do it, not even addressing if it "should".

My general view is that common-sense does tend to be rarity.

 

[Buckman]

The problem with using voice control is remembering the correct phase otherwise you get the "Do not understand"! My issue is that I have a foreign accent and sometimes words are not recognised or understood plus having radiotherapy on my throat has not helped. I normally get OH to operate touch screen if anything needs to be adjusted while travelling.

 

[RogerL]

The problem with using voice control is remembering the correct phase otherwise you get the "Do not understand"! My issue is that I have a foreign accent and sometimes words are not recognised or understood plus having radiotherapy on my throat has not helped. I normally get OH to operate touch screen if anything needs to be adjusted while travelling.

Alexa seems to have issues with some accents/dialects https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68466369

 

[Anseo]

Alexa seems to have issues with some accents/dialects https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68466369

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMS2VnDveP8

 

[Mrb78]

I would imagine all cars have those 5 basic features as standard already.

 

[Beardy]

Brother-in-law had 4 or 5 Skoda Yeti's on PCP, he loved them. When they stopped the Yeti he switched to a Kamiq (or comic as he called it). He hated it because everything was on touch screen and voice control. Handed it back and bought a second hand Fabia to avoid the tech.

 

[otherclive]

I would imagine all cars have those 5 basic features as standard already.

You should look into a few modern cars and see that many don’t have those five features. VW ID range plus new Golf’s, Volvo EX30, several Stellantis models, Tesla, and lot of Chinese models. Hence the reason for NCAPs decision to deduct marks from the safety scores on models without such features. Long overdue.

 

[Mrb78]

I know most cars now have features like heating controls within their touchscreens but I would be very surprised to see any that have indicators, horn, hazards or windscreen wipers not in the “normal” place.

 

[Buckman]

I know most cars now have features like heating controls within their touchscreens but I would be very surprised to see any that have indicators, horn, hazards or windscreen wipers not in the “normal” place.

The seat and steering wheel heating are in a sub menu on our car. No issue when entering the car and switching them on, but the hassle is switching them off again when everything ahs warmed up. You need to stop or take your eyes off the road. On our earlier Jeep, it was buttons and easy to locate without taking your eyes off the road.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I know most cars now have features like heating controls within their touchscreens but I would be very surprised to see any that have indicators, horn, hazards or windscreen wipers not in the “normal” place.

Look at the recent updates to Tesla models, and some others now have indicators on the wheel spokes which means you have to chase the rim to find them which can be a problem in A finding them and secondly working out which one to touch when the wheel is inverted.

 

[Mrb78]

Ah, I stand corrected!

 

[trevormonty]

Look at the recent updates to Tesla models, and some others now have indicators on the wheel spokes which means you have to chase the rim to find them which can be a problem in A finding them and secondly working out which one to touch when the wheel is inverted.

Like trying to use pad shifters on windy roads.
If it was BMW wouldn't matter as their drivers rarely use indicators.

 

[Mr Plodd]

I just wish caravan manufacturers woukd insist on their suppliers of fridges and heating systems go back to good old fashioned mechanical switches, rather than the highly complex PCB control boards which, when they go wrong (not an unknown thing) are horrendously expensive to replace.

Me? I hate loathe and detest cars with touch screens, they simply have to be less safe than those with switches that muscle memory takes your fingers too without having to think about it, OR take your eyes off the road.

 

[Mr Plodd]

An interesting article !,

 

[otherclive]

Surprising that it has taken so long to build up a head of steam to demonstrate that there are some things that are entirely unsuited for touch screen control. Car designs pandered to the “smart phone” cult that thought touch screens were “cool”. Yet even from the introduction of touch screens some motoring journalists were criticising them in some cars. All the good work and legislation carried out to clamp down on mobile phone use has been grossly undermined by a generation of cars with unsuitable touch screen controls.

 

[otherclive]

This morning we left home at 0615 for an early hospital appointment in Swindon. I’ve been advised to not drive for 2-3 weeks so my wife took the reins. As we headed east along the A4 into a rising sun it struck me that the rear light arrangements for some modern cars are form over function. The LED rear light designs on cars have almost merged brake and indicator lights. Whilst at the same time the physical size of the lens has reduced. There was a Passat where its rear cluster is circular and the indicator sits as a smaller circle within the outer brake light circle. The indicators were virtually invisible when braking. On another car the indicator sat in the middle with brake above it and rear below it. The three elements were rectangular and not particularly large, and the indicator when on scrolled from inner to outer periphery. Again rendered difficult to see when braking with oncoming sun .

Arrangements with small bright red and orange LED lights located very close together can affect the reaction time of following drivers particularly when it is sunny. Made worse by the incumbents inability to give timely signals to other drivers, or not taking MSM action. There’s also the effect on drivers who may have limitations on colour recognition and differentiation in the red and orange spectrum. Separating light functions by location would improve braking light and indicator visibility.

Perhaps the new safety scores for NCAP should include rear indicator light visibility under braking conditions.

 

[JTQ]

Then I had issues with "trafficators", only reluctantly came out when the vehicle speed had dropped to almost stopped

These wonderful composite moulded plastic rear light clusters, are used to basically extract an unbelievable price, if needing to replace. Like after some toerag decided to "borrow" them.

 

[Mr Plodd]

I agree with Clive 100% on all points, especially the rear indicators on VW Passats!

 

[Sam Vimes]

My car has daytime running lights in the form of a single chevron, towards the centre front. Adjacent to them are the indicators, also a single chevron.

Initially there were lots of complaints from drivers and other road users that the front indicators couldn't be seen clearly because the DRLs where too bright. Potential for accidents.

Nissan introduced a modification that now dims the appropriate DLR when you indicate.

Someone didn't think that one through at the design stage.

 

[Mr Plodd]

My car has daytime running lights in the form of a single chevron, towards the centre front. Adjacent to them are the indicators, also a single chevron.

Initially there were lots of complaints from drivers and other road users that the front indicators couldn't be seen clearly because the DRLs where too bright. Potential for accidents.

Nissan introduced a modification that now dims the appropriate DLR when you indicate.

Someone didn't think that one through at the design stage.

That's an almost universal feature on cars these days.

 

[Buckman]

And I thought I was the only one to moan about the size of indicators on some cars especially small cars. In some cases when on a roundabout you cannot see the indicator until the car is nearly on top of you.