Caravan Battery we think is dead even though we have solar

[Saxo Appeal]

I think the green light should be solid green AND the red/amber lights should be off. If the red lights are still showing, then the battery isn't fully charged.

It was 100% Solid Green and all the other lights off when I disconnected it from the Smart Charger

 

[otherclive]

I think the green light should be solid green AND the red/amber lights should be off. If the red lights are still showing, then the battery isn't fully charged.

That’s right, as the battery charges the green light comes in and pulses. This can last for quite a while as the NOCO is optimising the battery. When optimisation is complete just a steady green light shows and the NOCO is then “ maintaining “ the battery.

 

[birdman101]

Your controller showing battery LOW when a fully charged Battery is connected points to either the Yellow fuse under the controller blown or the Yellow 20amp fuse on the Sargent consumer unit circuit board connection E9,blown. Either of these blown will have disabled the solar module reading the Battery voltage to know if it is charged up or needs feed to charge
Presume the 20amp Battery fuse has not blown and 12 volt things in the caravan are working when the mains charger is off or you are not on hookup.

 

[Saxo Appeal]

Just off the phone to the elec specialist at the dealership

Told him what I had tested working with JTQ, and the last part when I mentioned there was no Voltage with the (-) and positive wire sitting out, he immediately said that’s definitely not right, and said it seems like a faulty panel.

He also mentioned that Swift fit 2 different panels, one which is light and flexible but sits slap bang on the roof, or another which is raised. He said the one slap bang can bring faults as the area it sits in can accumulate with water and with the frost every year faults can happen etc. He much prefers the raised for obvious reasons. He checked my VIN and confirmed I have the light/flex type.

He’s off now to speak to the service dept. and will book this in for a warranty repair. So I’ll fit the battery back (ensuring everything is off), if it’s flat by the time the caravan is with them, they will deal with it.

 

[otherclive]

Just off the phone to the elec specialist at the dealership

Told him what I had tested working with JTQ, and the last part when I mentioned there was no Voltage with the (-) and positive wire sitting out, he immediately said that’s definitely not right, and said it seems like a faulty panel.

He also mentioned that Swift fit 2 different panels, one which is light and flexible but sits slap bang on the roof, or another which is raised. He said the one slap bang can bring faults as the area it sits in can accumulate with water and with the frost every year faults can happen etc. He much prefers the raised for obvious reasons. He checked my VIN and confirmed I have the light/flex type.

He’s off now to speak to the service dept. and will book this in for a warranty repair. So I’ll fit the battery back (ensuring everything is off), if it’s flat by the time the caravan is with them, they will deal with it.

Looks like you have found yourself a good dealership. Hope they can fix it.

 

[Saxo Appeal]

Very much so Clive, they have been really good with us.

Bit of a distance to travel to get the caravan with them (over the forth road bridge) but it’s certainly worth it.

 

[JTQ]

Thanks JTQ,

Just out of curiosity, would this be the box which is from the Solar Panel to the Battery fuse, which was connected to side of the Sargent main Fuse box?

Looks like a plethora of screws to get into this cage though…

View attachment 10078

No, that unit appears to be the charger Sargent supplied to recharge the battery from mains electricity whilst on an EHU, and nothing to do with the solar system.
Others familiar with the kit you have ought to be able to guide you.

Edit: it seems the "team" already are helping you. As the dealer said you getting nothing like an acceptable open circuit voltage from your panel's feed at the solar controller , is as I said completely wrong. That it is a flexible panel, I have to say having fault issues comes as no great surprise to me either As they, I way prefer in this application the solid glass sheeted type of panel for reliability reasons; pity they are also heavier.
Glad it seems to be getting sorted.
Re the battery, if it fails to hold close to even the poor 12.55V for many more days, then its past its sell buy date.
Then IMO you might be better buying a replacement from a major battery dealer than the caravan workshop. Their massive turnover of stock is decidedly more likely to play out in your interests than the risks of purchasing further down the retail chain as a caravan dealership, and like for like cheaper.

 

[Martin_E]

One of the easiest cheat ways to test the solar panel is with a 21w bulb with wires soldered onto the outer case and the solder base, disconnect the solar panel from the controller and connect the bulb wires to the panel wires, if the bulb on a sunny day lights up nicely the pane is ok, if all you get is a glow it’s more than likely the panel

 

[birdman101]

If you put a meter on the two wires from the solar panel after disconnecting them from the controller,depending on level of light, you usually get around 19 v or higher. If so the panel is working.

 

[Martin_E]

@birdman101 this is true, but it needs testing under load to show it’s working as it should. This is info gained from Sargent when trying to sort out where an issue was in the system

 

[AndrewAventura]

This ok?

View attachment 10077

I know there's been a few further comments since Saxo posted this, but generally along the lines that with the panel open circuit as it seems to be here then a voltage of 19V or higher is expected, and that the multimeter display in this photo indicates practically nothing. But surely the displayed value of OL indicates out-of-range, so that it's sensing something above 20V?

Please shoot me down if I've misunderstood!

What does the multimeter show if you have it set at the 200V range rather than 20V? (With the connections as you have them in this photo, plus also with the panel seeing decent daylight)

From everything you've described, isn't the problem just that you forgot to switch the 12V system 'off' via the black push button on the power control unit when you put the van into winter storage? The battery will discharge relatively quickly if you leave it 'on'.

 

[JTQ]

But surely the displayed value of OL indicates out-of-range, so that it's sensing something above 20V?

Valid point well made and your advise to have used the 200V setting here again very constructive. It could as intimated have quite reasonably have been something over the set 20 V,

I have to accept that I had not previously read it as "0.L".
Not that I would have known what that meant if I had, never having encountered it myself.

 

[ProfJohnL]

This ok?

View attachment 10077

Cannot possibly say whether this picture is OK or not. Unfortunately it does not tell very much. except the meter is detecting something which is exceeding the range selected.

I cannot see clearly enough to know exactly which range setting the multimeter was set to, but it does look like it's set to 20V dc. The measurement display is showing "0.L" which generally means "Over load" or "Over limit" or Over Range" This will only display if the meter is connected to a voltage source, and the measured value exceeds the selected ranges maximum value.

If my assumptions are correct about the meters setting, and its working correctly, then the voltage of the device being measured exceeds the 20V, but I can't tell you by how much the value exceeds 20V. it could be just 20.01V but it could equally be 600V or more, this picture simply does not tell us.

 

[birdman101]

This ok?

Cannot possibly say whether this picture is OK or not. Unfortunately it does not tell very much. except the meter is detecting something which is exceeding the range selected.

I cannot see clearly enough to know exactly which range setting the multimeter was set to, but it does look like it's set to 20V dc. The measurement display is showing "0.L" which generally means "Over load" or "Over limit" or Over Range" This will only display if the meter is connected to a voltage source, and the measured value exceeds the selected ranges maximum value.

If my assumptions are correct about the meters setting, and its working correctly, then the voltage of the device being measured exceeds the 20V, but I can't tell you by how much the value exceeds 20V. it could be just 20.01V but it could equally be 600V or more, this picture simply does not tell us.

From the pictutpre the meter is set on 20volt ,therefore as the meter shows OL, THE PANEL IS PUTTING OUT MORE THAN 20 volts as if working would be expected.

 

[Saxo Appeal]

Hmmm ok

Might pop down again and try again but with 200V selected.

Will take down the battery and hook it back up, so any tests I can do while there please advise.

I don’t have a big enough ladder (yet) so I can’t unfortunately get up to the panel, but I will take the drone up and take a few photos if the rain holds off

 

[birdman101]

Test set at 200v before connecting your Battery. Then when Battery connected push black button down and switch on panel over door. 12v lights should then work. If not check the Battery 20 amp fuse to see if it has blown. If ok then switch off panel over door and press Sargent black button so it is up in the off position. Then look at solar controller and if it still shows low light, if still on this means there is circuit connection to Battery. First check the 20 amp fuse at bottom of the solar controller to see if blown. If ok then the next is to check the 20amp fuse on the the Sargent consumer unit circuit board has not blown. If all fuses are OK then the next move is look for loose connectors or a broken wire somewhere.

 

[Saxo Appeal]

This is my battery readings so far, which I think leads me more to a failing battery? Seems to be depleting without any usage and sitting in living room, should have depleted that far down in such a short space of time?

I might even message the guy who does our caravan services, and when he’s next down at the storage to have a check on the caravan.

12.59/60 V at 16:48 - 08/01

Solid 12.55 V at 10:55 - 09/01

Solid 12.52 V at 19:42 - 09/01

Solid 12.48 V at 11:17 - 10/01

 

[Saxo Appeal]

Test set at 200v before connecting your Battery. Then when Battery connected push black button down and switch on panel over door. 12v lights should then work. If not check the Battery 20 amp fuse to see if it has blown. If ok then switch off panel over door and press Sargent black button so it is up in the off position. Then look at solar controller and if it still shows low light, if still on this means there is circuit connection to Battery. First check the 20 amp fuse at bottom of the solar controller to see if blown. If ok then the next is to check the 20amp fuse on the the Sargent consumer unit circuit board has not blown. If all fuses are OK then the next move is look for loose connectors or a broken wire somewhere.

Ok thanks, is the battery 20A fuse with all the fuses in the Sargent panel?

The red fuse under the below with all wires is a red 10A and which is ok, the yellow fuse under the Truma Solar controller is ok also as I tested that yesterday and had a buzz from both fuses

 

[birdman101]

The Battery fuse is usually inside the caravan at the back of the Battery box at floor level often well hidden under wires or water pipes.It is an inline fuse But if that is blown you will not have any caravan 12 light work or toilet flush pump.

 

[Saxo Appeal]

Ok first one using 200V on Multimeter

Honestly can’t find that Battery Fuse, does anyone else who has a swift know where this is in this manufacture caravans?

 

[Saxo Appeal]

Think I’ve found the yellow battery fuse, see if I can get it out

EDIT: It’s out and tested and multimeter bleeped, so this one is ok

 

[birdman101]

Yes it has a clear plastic cover over the fuse Every Swift we have had 8 of them has always been in the same place
So if that’s OK then next to check is the 20amp one on the consumer circuit board near connector E9

 

[Saxo Appeal]

Test set at 200v before connecting your Battery.

Tested this and came up 21.1 on MM

Then when Battery connected push black button down and switch on panel over door. 12v lights should then work. If not check the Battery 20 amp fuse to see if it has blown. If ok then switch off panel over door and press Sargent black button so it is up in the off position.

I pushed the black button to ON and as you can see below the lights on Truma controller are on MPP and charge solid green.

 

[Saxo Appeal]

 

[birdman101]

So every thing is working as it should. Looks as though it was all caused as Black button left switched on.
Make sure when you leave that the Black button is up in the OFF position