Seems some students from Holland have been touring Europe in an electric camper van. Good luck to them however maybe they should be concentrating on looking for alternative environmentally friendly source of power like hydrogen?
What’s the problem with an electric camper van?Seems some students from Holland have been touring Europe in an electric camper van. Good luck to them however maybe they should be concentrating on looking for alternative environmentally friendly source of power like hydrogen?
I never said there was anything wrong with the campervan although it probably not be very good in the UK unless they plugged it in every night. It is after all a concept vehicle.What’s the problem with an electric camper van?
There are two methods of producing hydrogen. One is environmentally friendly, the other not so. Unfortunately the better one is not that common yet. Irrespective how many hydrogen refuelling points are there compared to electric charging points. Precious few.
Seems some students from Holland have been touring Europe in an electric camper van. Good luck to them however maybe they should be concentrating on looking for alternative environmentally friendly source of power like hydrogen?
I suspect it's just a typo but exactly what do you mean by "ogg" It's not an abbreviation I recognise.I never said there was anything wrong with the campervan although it probably not be very ogg in the UK unless they plugged it in every night. It is after all a concept vehicle.
I did suggest that maybe they should be spending their time looking for something more environmentally friendly not necessary hydrogen.
As per my post we should be looking for alternative source of power as solar and wind are not a constant.I suspect it's just a typo but exactly what do you mean by "ogg" It's not an abbreviation I recognise.
Even in the UK, there's some useful quantity of solar energy to be collected, but it might need to be supplemented from grid sources.
And when you suggest:-
"they should be spending their time looking for something more environmentally friendly"
Are you suggesting their camper is not environmentally friendly? What are you trying to compare it to? It's certainly more ecofriendly than a gas guzzler.
You mention Hydrogen, but as we all know that is not a viable system at the moment, and is unlikely to be so for many years, if ever!
Please put some meat on the bare scaffolding you have laid out before us to explain your thinking.
Personally find it quite exciting. Ev makers don't at the mo put solar panels on roofs as I don't think it's as yet capable of providing enough juice to be cost charge effective, can anyone elucidate on this ,? but I admire their efforts.
I understand that but what I am trying to put across is that we still need to looking for an alternative source of power whatever it will be. Electric IMHO is not the answer, but at the moment is a good substitute.Brilliant post Tobes-thank you. It'll come !
Buckman I know wind isn't a constant but in terms of light modern solar panels still produce even on cloudy days-as Tobes says they just need to get a lot more efficient.
It should not be an issue converting the van however at the end of the day you still need electric to power it throughout the year and that electric needs to come from somewhere even if it is a polluting coal fire power station.Even a hydrogen powered vehicle will most probably and logically be Electric. Using it in ICEs is only ever going to be an interim step, IMO.
Whilst there probably is finite energy in our "Universe", the only bit likely to concern us is that harvestable on Earth, and I suspect the only genuine "renewable" down here is from the sun, it drives all the others.
Only last week Dpd delivered here in a fair sized 100% electric van, there surely is no great step converting that into a camper?
Now people are being offered £5k grants to change their boilers away from gas so another drain on the system?
If I recall correctly we were told by the government of the day to switch to gas boilers from storage heating and now government is telling us to switch to air source as gas boilers are bad?Is not a big issue going to be matching the "radiators" to low quality energy?
I did the calcs back in the 70s for the system I installed, and recall using quite a high radiator surface temperature. With heat pumps surely these are not going to get to those temperatures meaning all my radiators will also need a significant increase in size or emission ability. Not an issue being discussed and one that must greatly impact those planning conversion to heat pumps.
I am trying hard to get my 1970s boiler and system to outlast us, but it's not looking good.
It should not be an issue converting the van however at the end of the day you still need electric to power it throughout the year and that electric needs to come from somewhere even if it is a polluting coal fire power station.
A short while back a table of UK energy supply sources was posted into the thread. Coal was only responsible for a very low percentage of UK power. Here is todays at 0940 BST. Zero coal usage.It should not be an issue converting the van however at the end of the day you still need electric to power it throughout the year and that electric needs to come from somewhere even if it is a polluting coal fire power station.
If I recall correctly we were told by the government of the day to switch to gas boilers from storage heating and now government is telling us to switch to air source as gas boilers are bad?
We were also told that going diesel was better by the government of the day and now we are being told that diesel is bad and we need to switch to petrol or EVs.
I am wondering what is next on their agenda that the government said is good for us, but are now going to say is bad for us and we need to spend more money to comply with their wishes?
There is not enough emphasis on conserving energy, in my opinion. We have all come to expect and demand private and personal mobility, but if we are going to achieve a carbon-neutral existence this indulgence has got to stop, or at least be radically reduced. Perhaps a couple of bikes with lightweight tents is a good way for students to see the world.
I understand that but what I am trying to put across is that we still need to looking for an alternative source of power whatever it will be. Electric IMHO is not the answer, but at the moment is a good substitute.
Even a hydrogen powered vehicle will most probably and logically be Electric. Using it in ICEs is only ever going to be an interim step, IMO.
Whilst there probably is finite energy in our "Universe", the only bit likely to concern us is that harvestable on Earth, and I suspect the only genuine "renewable" down here is from the sun, it drives all the others.
Living in the countryside with power cuts from time to time makes you think hard about relying solely on electric. During the past summer we had to long power cuts with one being nearly all day and the other only 2 -3 hours.
If it was middle of the winter we would have had to drag out the gas heater to keep warm. We also have a small camping gas stove as a backup. Worst of all we need to fit an old style telephone so that we can phone out as no mobile signal.
As you state storing energy is the biggest obstacle at present. However if for example a sub-station goes or there is a physical breakage in distribution supply over which the distribution company has no control, then no heating, hot water etc. At least with gas you will still have heating and hot water.The point though is that the source of all our renewables will be via electricity generation. Gas, Oil and Coal will have to go away. I think the question you are looking to have answered is how will we store energy in sufficient quantities, and with sufficient distribution to eliminate events such as power cuts.
Totally agree.
I agree - on a human scale, there are 4 "sources" of energy available to us.
Everything else (I think ?) is derived from one of these.
- Solar (which drives the climate and so includes wind and hydro where rivers are topped up by rainfall)
- Tidal (driven by the energy embodied in the moon orbiting the earth)
- Geo-thermal (driven by the heat that is present in the earths core)
- Nuclear (fission and fusion)(driven by the energy stored in the subatomic forces)
This is not a question of a reliable energy source, but of a reliable distribution.
So a combination of lots (and lots) of renewable generation, coupled with both local and grid level storage, and an emphasis on robustness of our whole infrastructure seems to be the way forward for me.