If I was younger, I'd be struggling to know which technology to buy as a single car family with high mileage solo use as well as long haul caravan towing - in practice, my VW Touareg TDi is low enough mileage to see out my towing days so I have bought a cheap petrol city car to use for short journeys which might otherwise compromise the diesel components - but I might replace this little car with a BEV if they ever get cheap enough.
If I was younger, I'd be struggling to know which technology to buy as a single car family with high mileage solo use as well as long haul caravan towing - in practice, my VW Touareg TDi is low enough mileage to see out my towing days so I have bought a cheap petrol city car to use for short journeys which might otherwise compromise the diesel components - but I might replace this little car with a BEV if they ever get cheap enough.
My wife car she owned since 2011 Mitsubishi Colt Attivo 3 door it was three years old when she got it and with only 24,000 miles recorded mileage . She retired in 2017 with NHS . (Nurse)
I have told her since do you want to change it if it not broken why fix it .
But a couple years back l test drive a Nissan Leaf electric and she had a go if l change my car it will be this or a Mini .
I have told her since do you want to change it if it not broken why fix it .
But a couple years back l test drive a Nissan Leaf electric and she had a go if l change my car it will be this or a Mini .
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I plan to stick with the Forester it’s only done 44 k miles and tows well. Our 2017 Rio is comfortable enough for long trips as well as more local ones and at anywhere from 50-55 mpg compensates for the Foresters weak point; it’s economy, or relative lack of.
Its certainly true that presently (2021) there are few if any financially viable EV's for towing larger caravans. There are products like the Rivian, Cyber Truck, which are closer to being released for sale. Apparently Jeep have announced and all EV off roader which will probably have a decent towing capacity but like the others its going to be costly and big.
Tesla's Model X does have a 2,250kg towing limit, but towing does affect its range. see:-
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhX3BmhJXc8
There are the likes of and Jeep has announced a EV Wrangler, and I'm certain there will be others that will have substantial towing capacity that will suit larger caravans, but range and recharge times are going to mean a change to the traditional load up and go concept of caravanning. Route planning is going to have to include stops for charging.
I have no doubt that caravanning is going to see some significant changes. Manufacturers are going to have to put caravan designs on a weight loss plan and improved aerodynamics so they have products that people can actually use.
Based on what's available to day, most caravanner's may best served by hanging onto what they've got now, or possibly looking at a PHEV hybrid for sub1500kg caravans with the understanding that towing fuel consumption will be considerably poorer than present day diesels. But they might gain by the better consumption during daily driving. That will depend on what proportion of mileage is done solo.
One car caravanning families (I think there are still some of those) who hold onto a ICE tow vehicle may find they can't take their vehicles into an increasing number of Zero Emission Zones, or face quite high daily access charges.
Other pressures such as those who have company cars may find themselves with a problem as companies are likely to start telling employees to choose electric vehicles, which might not be able to tow their present day caravans. Their options are limited.
Tesla's Model X does have a 2,250kg towing limit, but towing does affect its range. see:-
There are the likes of and Jeep has announced a EV Wrangler, and I'm certain there will be others that will have substantial towing capacity that will suit larger caravans, but range and recharge times are going to mean a change to the traditional load up and go concept of caravanning. Route planning is going to have to include stops for charging.
I have no doubt that caravanning is going to see some significant changes. Manufacturers are going to have to put caravan designs on a weight loss plan and improved aerodynamics so they have products that people can actually use.
Based on what's available to day, most caravanner's may best served by hanging onto what they've got now, or possibly looking at a PHEV hybrid for sub1500kg caravans with the understanding that towing fuel consumption will be considerably poorer than present day diesels. But they might gain by the better consumption during daily driving. That will depend on what proportion of mileage is done solo.
One car caravanning families (I think there are still some of those) who hold onto a ICE tow vehicle may find they can't take their vehicles into an increasing number of Zero Emission Zones, or face quite high daily access charges.
Other pressures such as those who have company cars may find themselves with a problem as companies are likely to start telling employees to choose electric vehicles, which might not be able to tow their present day caravans. Their options are limited.
In Milton Keynes , now the council has stopped certain bus routes. But have started a dial a bus system, It is supposed to take you from your nearest bus stop to the nearest bus stop to where you want to go. Anywhere across the city, (still no Catherdral though)
Thats the theory. £2.50 a trip. It will take you in a mini bus style vechile.
Never used it yet. And I wonder if they are EV.
Thats the theory. £2.50 a trip. It will take you in a mini bus style vechile.
Never used it yet. And I wonder if they are EV.
Parksy
Moderator
We've had that sort of thing for years in the West Midlands.
It's called the Ring and Ride bus, used mainly by pensioners who have time to sit on the minibus as various passengers are dropped off at different locations.
On Apple tv there’s the series “ The Long Way Up” about Euan Macgregor and Charlie Borman’s ride from Ushauia in southern Argentina to LA. They use prototype EV Harley Davidsons and prototype EV Rivian pick ups. The sponsors ensured there were lots, and I do mean lots, of charging points en route. In the far south the bikes really suffered in cold weather as battery performance dropped but improved as weather got warmer. They could only be charged indoors. What was remarkable was the reliability of both types of prototype vehicle. But there were works teams available if required. Plus mobile generators as back up. The only significant problems were one bikes battery management unit failed necessitating a total strip down of the bike. The other was a Rivian had an electrical issue that led to loss of braking. With no handbrake it rolled backwards and rested its rear axle atop a Boulder.
So what I took away from the programme was that I’d love an electric Harley but only for Sunday jaunts around Wiltshire. But it’s range was akin to mine and my sons when he and friends would go on trips away. But they could wee, down a coffee, have a smoke and refuel far quicker than the time required to recharge the EV bike. And they could detour on their trips as they liked. But to be fair the comparison should be a 1930s Harley to the EV Harley. These days my range would be a limiting factor and I don’t smoke either.
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The cat amongst the pigeons if like us you have an older car. Our ultra reliable Corolla is a P reg. There are approximately 700,000 old vehicles on the road that may be impacted and this includes classic cars. This will hit those who cannot afford a newer car. Also what we will be done with some of the 700,000 that may be scrapped as that will have a huge impact on the environment!
Published 25 February 2021
From: Department for Transport
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e10-petrol-explained
Summary
During summer 2021, the standard (or ‘Premium’) petrol grade in the UK will become E10. E10 petrol contains up to 10% renewable ethanol, which is added to reduce CO2 emissions and help tackle climate change.
E10 petrol is compatible with almost all (95%) petrol-powered vehicles on the road today, including all cars built since 2011.
If your vehicle or equipment is not compatible with E10 fuel, you will still be able to use E5 by purchasing the ‘Super’ grade petrol from most filling stations. Filling stations will clearly label petrol as either E10 or E5.
The change in fuel only applies to petrol; diesel fuel will not be changing.
Published 25 February 2021
From: Department for Transport
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e10-petrol-explained
Summary
During summer 2021, the standard (or ‘Premium’) petrol grade in the UK will become E10. E10 petrol contains up to 10% renewable ethanol, which is added to reduce CO2 emissions and help tackle climate change.
E10 petrol is compatible with almost all (95%) petrol-powered vehicles on the road today, including all cars built since 2011.
If your vehicle or equipment is not compatible with E10 fuel, you will still be able to use E5 by purchasing the ‘Super’ grade petrol from most filling stations. Filling stations will clearly label petrol as either E10 or E5.
The change in fuel only applies to petrol; diesel fuel will not be changing.
Not really any different then to when lead content was reduced in the mid 1980s. My Volvo 245 was an absolute pig on reduced lead fuels even commercial higher octane ones. It pinked like crazy. And when I set back the ignition it overheated. Found Volvo in east Africa had thicker head gaskets but couldn’t source one in UK. So Volvo suggested I fit two standard head gaskets. I didn’t like that idea and also being only three years old and with rust appearing in too many places I got rid of it and bought a Citroen BX estate that gave many years of trouble free motoring. And it had composite rear door and bonnet and didn’t develop rust anywhere.
Scrapped cars provide a very useful source of steel which can be produced in arc furnaces without the need for coking coal as used in blast furnaces. But unfortunately new steel still requires high quality coking coal in the production process. One of the future problems facing Port Talbot ☹️
The situation you describe is no different now than previously. There have always been some who have a an older car, and need to consider changing it, but feel they can't afford some of the new cars. The advent of EV's has not changed that dilemma.
The solutions are either continue to run your present car for longer, consider changing it for second hand car that you can afford, or find the funds to buy a new car. 2030 only stops the purchase of NEW ICE cars. The secondhand market will still be selling some ICE cars.
I don't know where you got your 700K vehicles needing to scrapped from, but they wouldn't all be scrapped simultaneously, but spread over a number of years. And it not as if scrapping cars is a new idea, what do you think has been happening for the last 70 years?
To put it into perspective if we look at the the numbers of vehicles on our road year on year, and the number of new registrations, that will indicate the numbers presently being taken out of circulation and likely scrapped.
Ignoring 2020 becasue the pandemic has affected so many markets, In 2018 The government reported there were a total of 38.2M registered vehicles, and in 2019 that rose to 38.4M, and increase of just 200k, yet in 2019 there were 2.9M new vehicles registered! that means 2.7M vehicles left the roads.
The revision to fuel chemistry, might improve the carbon footprint of ICE, but its not going to improve fuel efficiency, its more likely to reduce it as the energy in the fuel is likely to reduce as as non petroleum content increases.
Burning any fuel in a high compression system will continue to create tailpipe emissions.
I was specifically referring to cars built before 2011 and IMHO there are probably a lot more than 700,000 of them, on the road at present. Of those 700, 000 probably a great deal are cars that were built without taking E10 into consideration so will end up on the scrap heap fairly soon after Sept 2021.
Our 1998 Corolla is in very good condition and is reliable and used as a town car so don't see why we should need to trade it in for a later model which may have issues.
We will now have to pay the extra for the higher grade fuel which we should be able to manage, but what about those people living on the breadline who cannot afford the extra costs or trade up to a newer second hand car. We all know that public transport is diabolical especially to industrial areas.
The owners of older cars don’t necessarily have to change. Although the added cost of higher octane E5 will add 10-12 pence per litre. I suggest they will have to do what many older members of the forum had to do. That is moderate their activities to meet their budget. Remember the punitive interest rates some years back, combined with wage freezes and high inflation. They weren’t all golden years by any means.
Not sure how a standard 1300cc engine set up for unleaded will take to the premium at an extra cost? Won't it cause "pinking" as mentioned above?
No the opposite-the higher the octane the less chance of pinking surely?But it is an extra cost.
How can it cause pinking when the super premium fuel is an even higher octane than standard 95 RON.
Shell v power, Esso and even Tesco premium have RON between 98 and 99. My 245 Volvo was affected as removing lead and the reduced RON caused it to pink. Your old Toyota will absolutely fly.
Thanks. I think the tank is about 45 litres from empty as an extra fiver to fill it up if totally empty. I would prefer to use premium diesel in the Jeep , but that is like £11 extra for a fill up from empty.
We tend to use premium in both our petrols mainly for the extra detergent properties as the extra octane rating isn’t noticeable when driving.
My wife car is a 2008 Mitsubishi Colt 1.1 at present it takes standard Ron 95 at present sometimes super unleaded will this car be compatible to E10
The new E10 is supposedly compatible with al, cars built from 2010. Best you check with Mitsubishi fir a 2008 Colt. Or play safe and treat it to some E5 premium in its dotage.
Hi otherclive at present checking with a friend who service and MOT it but thanks for replying on this matter
HAve a look here https://www.acea.be/publications/article/e10-petrol-fuel-vehicle-compatibility-list
Or here https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/can-my-car-use-e10-ethanol-fuel-23625
Seem s your Mitsu is fine-all post 86 cars are compatible-the Japanese must have been ahead of the game!
Or here https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/can-my-car-use-e10-ethanol-fuel-23625
Seem s your Mitsu is fine-all post 86 cars are compatible-the Japanese must have been ahead of the game!
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