Replacement AGM battery

[Buckman]

Sadly it seems that my 95ah AGM battery which is over 6 years old is on its way out. Checking this morning the reading is 11.7v. Although it has recovered previously from dropping as low as 6v this was when it was only about 2 years old.

I am now debating whether to pay the extra and switch to lithium or to stick with the AGM battery. This could open up a load of non EHU sites to us plus if on a metered site we can keep costs down by running on the lithium battery. The latter I am a bit unsure of as we like wo watch TV in the evenings, but according to some who have done it the lithium should last the night and recharge the next day from the 100w solar panel. We do have an 150w inverter which I think it ample for our use.

I guess it is a case of justifying the cost of the lithium against the AGM which retails for about £210. Lithium is double that cost for the equivalnet plus too many brands unknown to myself. Halfords have the AGM battery with a 2 years warranty and Tanya the identical battery with a 4 years warranty. Biggest issue with Tanya is if the battery needs to be returned for a warranty issue.

 

[Mr Plodd]

How many standard lead acid batteries could you buy for the cost of one Lithium? If each LA lasts you say just 3 years how many years before Lithium breaks even cost wise.

If you have 2 lead acid batteries, and say carry one in the car you could link them when on site (simple connection via an outside socket and plug arrangement, no need for huge wiring because you are not going to be using a mover etc) that could double the AH available. That would probably equal the capacity of the Luthium and they could both still be charged by you solar panel.

Just my thoughts on the subject as sometimes it's beneficial to have someone else's input. The one advantage of course of Lithium is weight, but like I said, you could easily carry another lead acid jobbie in your car! Do you actually need an AGM rather than a (cheaper) sealed flooded lead acid battery?

Food for thought anyway.

 

[shouldknowbettor]

A direct replacement would only be 50ah if lithium, so you'd save a bunch of weight and it would be cheaper although it might not like heavy motor use. Something like a fogstar 105 will be £370 but deliver you getting on for twice the power for less weight, so really the question is do you want the extra power capacity? Price wise it stacks up on power alone (£4.42/ah vs £4.50 for lithium) and of course you can connect your phone to the Fogstar.

 

[Buckman]

How many standard lead acid batteries could you buy for the cost of one Lithium? If each LA lasts you say just 3 years how many years before Lithium breaks even cost wise.

If you have 2 lead acid batteries, and say carry one in the car you could link them when on site (simple connection via an outside socket and plug arrangement, no need for huge wiring because you are not going to be using a mover etc) that could double the AH available. That would probably equal the capacity of the Luthium and they could both still be charged by you solar panel.

Just my thoughts on the subject as sometimes it's beneficial to have someone else's input. The one advantage of course of Lithium is weight, but like I said, you could easily carry another lead acid jobbie in your car! Do you actually need an AGM rather than a (cheaper) sealed flooded lead acid battery?

Food for thought anyway.

Thanks for the input. On mentioning lithium battery prices to OH that is not definitely a no go area. LOL!

The caravan came standard with the AGM battery so prefer to stick to that as it has lasted over 6 years. I am not familiar with the Flooded acid battery and have no idea on reliability etc.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

The vast majority of our caravaning is off-grid using a 110ah LA battery and 150 watts of solar power.
Our previous battery, 110ah NUMAX, lasted 8 years. The current one is a re-badged NUMAX.
We use motor movers, TV, etc and even recharge mobility scooter batteries via an inverter.
The battery is normally back to full charge by mid-morning, mid-day at the latest.

 

[otherclive]

Thanks for the input. On mentioning lithium battery prices to OH that is not definitely a no go area. LOL!

The caravan came standard with the AGM battery so prefer to stick to that as it has lasted over 6 years. I am not familiar with the Flooded acid battery and have no idea on reliability etc.

That’s the standard lead acid battery that’s been mainstream for many years and instead of removing the caps to check electrolyte level theses days they are classed as sealed and maintenance free. Undoubtedly you wil have had them on cars, and possibly previous caravans. I have never used anything else on my caravans.

 

[Mr Plodd]

I have never used anything else on my caravans.

Me too, current one is 4 years old and still holds a charge perfectly@. I do have a roof mounted solar panel so it is always fully charged.
On a previous motorhome the (lead acid) 110 Ah leisure battery was 7 years old when I sold the MH and was still performing perfectly, so they are pretty reliable things providing they are looked after and never allowed to become excessively discharged.

 

[RogerL]

I don't see the value of an AGM or Lithium battery in a caravan that's mainly used on pitches with EHU and has a solar panel to keep it topped up when off-grid - the main draw is likely to be the motor mover which is typically only for short periods.

Stick with a conventional flooded lead-acid battery - if you don't abuse it it'll last way beyond it's warranty length.

 

[trevormonty]

There are drop in replacement LiFePO4 batteries that will work with your van's inbuilt AGM charger.
LiFePO4 Vs AGM. More useable charger ie discharge to 20% on regular basis without degrading battery, not recommended going below 50% with AGM. That is extra 60% more useable capacity upfront eg 80 vs 50ahr on 100ahr battery.

Meant have longer life (more cycles ) so combined with extra user capacity may workout about same $ per Ahr compared to AGM over life of battery. If you don't do lot of offgrid camping and discharge below 50% regularly, then may never see the benefits of extra cycles.

Weight 13kg vs 28kg and being lighter is easier to remove if you want even more payload capacity.

The built in BMS in some LiFePO4 batteries allows for remote mointoring via BT and ph app, which maybe benefit to some. BMS will protect against over discharge by turning battery off.

I'm considering switching LiFePO4 so its easier to remove in place in car as I need extra payload mass when travelling. Also need to charge ebike batteries offgrid, this is where extra useable capacity comes into play.

 

[JTQ]

I have never seen a soundly argued financial case for going Lithium with a caravan, and sensible sized solar arrays, though with a motorhome exploiting their ability to take high current charges from an alternator the case alters somewhat.
Have they fixed the ability to solar charge in the cold, where unlike EVs they can't "waste" energy warming them up?
As I understand it, the solar charger really needs to feature a Lithium charging mode. Plus, whilst the BMS can live with van's LA mode chargers, this surely must be some compromise, or why do motorhomes designed for them feature Lithium chargers?

Though as a bit of a self conceded anorak I would like to play with one, just can't convince myself I should be so indulgent.

Edit: I suppose if you can't "live" off grid without some power hungry mains powered devices, then there is no real option but go Lithium; however the energy needs to be replaced from somewhere, and from sensibly sized solar arry that is still very finite.

 

[trevormonty]

This may help with your research.

How To Charge Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) Batteries - Power Sonic

A complete guide on how to charge lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries. Learn about the charging of a lithium battery from Power Sonic

www.power-sonic.com

If in doubt with charging, can always disable inbuilt 230V charger and fit a Lithium which is permanently plugged into 230V outlet onboard. Replace or reconfigure solar charger depending on model. NB there maybe some interaction between 230v and solar charger, so best not to have both connected at same time.

 

[Buckman]

As said in post #4 the lithium is definitely off the table. The caravan came standard from the factory with the AGM battery and I suspect they use the AGM as the caravan has self leveling fitted as standard.

On checking the battery this morning I noticed that at 2035 hours the voltage had actually increased to 11.8v possibly because yesterday we had some sunshine. Perhaps if it is charging and holding the charge there is a possibility that the battery is still okay and just in need of a decent charge?

The drain is obviously the alarm and tracker?

 

[JTQ]

On mentioning lithium battery prices to OH that is not definitely a no go area.

As said in post #4 the lithium is definitely off the table. The caravan came standard from the factory with the AGM battery and I suspect they use the AGM as the caravan has self leveling fitted as standard.

On checking the battery this morning I noticed that at 2035 hours the voltage had actually increased to 11.8v possibly because yesterday we had some sunshine. Perhaps if it is charging and holding the charge there is a possibility that the battery is still okay and just in need of a decent charge?

The drain is obviously the alarm and tracker?

Sorry then, but I had read #4 somewhat literally; "On mentioning lithium battery prices to OH that is not definitely a no go area."

There will be also a tad bit of self-drain & parasitic drains of mains and solar controllers, but I expect your dropped voltage is down to the weather not putting enough in presently, low sun angle so near total reliance on reflected light, very long shadows, few hours, overcast, water & grime etc.

 

[Dustydog]

I’ve wondered what is the true advantage of Absorbent Glass Mat leisure batteries over sealed Lead Acid types? My last 120 ah Numax lasted 8 years before two cells gave up .I replaced it like for like .The only advantage I can see for AGM it is allegedly spill proof. But so is my sealed one. Both are lead acid .Lithium is for the purist and way beyond the type of caravanning we now do. And so expensive😥😥. I guess Buccanneer chose the AGM for good reason or was it a dealer fit? I ask because I thought batteries were not supplied by then manufacturer🤔

 

[JTQ]

AGM is better for the slow continuous type of drains caravan users can encounter, as when off EHU, than the more normal wet type.

If you never go caravanning off EHU or have the parasitic storage drains of alarms etc, then you could save money with a totally satisfactory wet battery to buffer the system and power a mover for a few minutes each time it's used.

Hence this support of ancillaries in our stop start cars, means the better brands factory fit AGM batteries.
THIS Link outlines the thinking in that latter example.

 

[Dustydog]

An interesting link thanks. But for more for cars with stop start or hybrids.
I get the Balanced State of Charge but not quite sure how that relates to caravan usage. Unless the reality is the AGM recharges faster via the solar panel. I can see the benefits of using AGM off grid but at what cost, I haven’t checked the price differential yet

 

[Buckman]

. I guess Buccanneer chose the AGM for good reason or was it a dealer fit? I ask because I thought batteries were not supplied by then manufacturer🤔

AGM Battery is standard in Buccaneer and not a dealer fit. Without a battery the caravan cannot be leveled up. Battery and wastemaster are included in the MIRO.

 

[GUMPY]

I have got a Fogstar Drift 105 for the caravan despite my present battery only being a year old and in perfect health. The reasons for changing are simple:
20kg payload gained (we are hard up against our MTPLM)
Almost double the usable capacity
Ability to monitor the remaining capacity /charging.
This will enable us to ditch EHU for much of the time with the cost saving that brings.
As for charging the solar controller and mains charger are both Victron so do the job they are supposed to do.

The cost was slight problem until I pointed out to C that Fogstar were having a sale and the battery was £299 so a 27% discount which made it OK🤔

 

[Buckman]

Just to add a bit of Fred Drift, the Jeep has the AGM battery. The Fogstar Drift 105 averages at around £370 so £170 more than the Yuasa AGM 95ah. There are cheaper AGM batteries than the Yuasa, but brands are unknown to me so prefer to avoid them.

 

[otherclive]

Just to add a bit of Fred Drift, the Jeep has the AGM battery. The Fogstar Drift 105 averages at around £370 so £170 more than the Yuasa AGM 95ah. There are cheaper AGM batteries than the Yuasa, but brands are unknown to me so prefer to avoid them.

Halfords batteries are made by Yuasa. There are many other well known brands but like many things these days they are owned by a couple of mega holdings. Banner an Austrian battery have an excellent reputation for quality.

 

[Buckman]

An interesting link thanks. But for more for cars with stop start or hybrids.
I get the Balanced State of Charge but not quite sure how that relates to caravan usage. Unless the reality is the AGM recharges faster via the solar panel. I can see the benefits of using AGM off grid but at what cost, I haven’t checked the price differential yet

Apparently the AGM battery can be drained down by up to 75% and it can still recover? Maybe that is why Buccaneer chose to fit it to the these caravans?

 

[JTQ]

Just to add a bit of Fred Drift, the Jeep has the AGM battery. The Fogstar Drift 105 averages at around £370 so £170 more than the Yuasa AGM 95ah. There are cheaper AGM batteries than the Yuasa, but brands are unknown to me so prefer to avoid them.

Is your charger Lithium settable, if not another cost that with your in storage drains would also need funding?

 

[Buckman]

Is your charger Lithium settable, if not another cost that with your in storage drains would also need funding?

Not going down the lithium route due to cost, but the lithium battery can plug straight it however it is recommended that the solar panel charger is upgraded.

 

[RogerL]

Halfords batteries are made by Yuasa. There are many other well known brands but like many things these days they are owned by a couple of mega holdings. Banner an Austrian battery have an excellent reputation for quality.

"Made by xxxxx" and "made in the same factory as xxxxx" could mean anything - it's all down to detailed specifications which don't get published. It would be naive to think there aren't any differences.

I bought a Yuasa EFB battery for the caravan, first brand-new battery any of my caravans have ever had in 40 years - at 2 years old my AWS technician declared it "failed, needs replacing".

 

[littlebasher]

"Made by xxxxx" and "made in the same factory as xxxxx" could mean anything - it's all down to detailed specifications which don't get published. It would be naive to think there aren't any differences.

I bought a Yuasa EFB battery for the caravan, first brand-new battery any of my caravans have ever had in 40 years - at 2 years old my AWS technician declared it "failed, needs replacing".

Indeed, seems Yuasa aren't what they used to be

In the past 18 months, 2 of our families cars have required a replacement battery. Both have been fitted with Halfords (Yuasa) batteries.

Between the 2 cars, we are now on the 5th replacement.