Smart Motorways, the end is nigh

[Dustydog]

It is said all plans for future Smart Motorways have been shelved for the foreseeable future.
Now, the rest of the £3bn project, which was to see new roads constructed in Greater Manchester, the Pennines and London, has been halted. Smart motorways have been blamed for a number of deaths since their introduction.
I’ve never liked the abandonment of the “hard shoulder refuge”. Another cheapskate HMG effort to save cash.

 

[JTQ]

It beggars believe it was ever thought a remotely safe enough concept; now just a huge total waste of much needed funds right from its conception, through planning to execution, plus the wasted fuel its cost both in the build and user disruption caused.

It is hairy enough using the section of the M27 where now adopted running solo, and more worrying towing. Those few little refuges look way too small even if not in use if and when we might need one.

 

[otherclive]

It is said all plans for future Smart Motorways have been shelved for the foreseeable future.
Now, the rest of the £3bn project, which was to see new roads constructed in Greater Manchester, the Pennines and London, has been halted. Smart motorways have been blamed for a number of deaths since their introduction.
I’ve never liked the abandonment of the “hard shoulder refuge”. Another cheapskate HMG effort to save cash.

A long overdue move. The first ones on the M25 and M42 did at least give periods of available hard shoulder, and the many times I was on M42 I felt okay because there were plenty of speed control cameras and speed limits were brought down when traffic density increased. As traffic flow improved speed limits increased and the hard shoulder came back into being. But in 2021 coming back from Yorkshire I wasn’t a happy bunny on four lanes with absolutely no hard shoulder provision, and speed camera gantries few and far apart. So with the national speed limit in force and no hard shoulder I stuck to lane 1 for the length of those sections. So a concept that did have merit in some areas was spoilt because of cheap skating on funding.

 

[otherclive]

It beggars believe it was ever thought a remotely safe enough concept; now just a huge total waste of much needed funds right from its conception, through planning to execution, plus the wasted fuel its cost both in the build and user disruption caused.

It is hairy enough using the section of the M27 where now adopted running solo, and more worrying towing. Those few little refuges look way too small even if not in use if and when we might need one.

I think you will find the refuges are long enough to accommodate an outfit, but the distance between them isn’t what was originally specified. Cheap skating again.

 

[Woodentop]

It is said all plans for future Smart Motorways have been shelved for the foreseeable future.
Now, the rest of the £3bn project, which was to see new roads constructed in Greater Manchester, the Pennines and London, has been halted. Smart motorways have been blamed for a number of deaths since their introduction.
I’ve never liked the abandonment of the “hard shoulder refuge”. Another cheapskate HMG effort to save cash.

Well , not quite. It comes down to poor usage prediction plus, remember, many motorways were built decades ago when there was only a fraction of the vehicles about today.
The M25 was built three lane throughout, the the DoT decided that the southern part needed to be four lane and built that some years back at stupid cost. They never foresaw that someone going from say, Epsom to Tadworth would drive all the way to the M25, traverse the M25 and then turn back in to Tadworth when there is a perfect good A-road alternative - but they do!
Not quite motorway, but York has the A64 dual carriageway as a by-pass to the south side. Some years back they built the A1237 northern part of the by-pass as single lane. Anyone with any sense - and not just the locals - would have told you this is folly. Ergo a month or two ago it was announced that York is spending a silly sum (£39m?) to dual the northern side - but even then not the whole length of it!!
It really does beggar belief!
Oh, and just this morning I see that the Smart Motorway programme is being restarted..........

 

[otherclive]

Well , not quite. It comes down to poor usage prediction plus, remember, many motorways were built decades ago when there was only a fraction of the vehicles about today.
The M25 was built three lane throughout, the the DoT decided that the southern part needed to be four lane and built that some years back at stupid cost. They never foresaw that someone going from say, Epsom to Tadworth would drive all the way to the M25, traverse the M25 and then turn back in to Tadworth when there is a perfect good A-road alternative - but they do!
Not quite motorway, but York has the A64 dual carriageway as a by-pass to the south side. Some years back they built the A1237 northern part of the by-pass as single lane. Anyone with any sense - and not just the locals - would have told you this is folly. Ergo a month or two ago it was announced that York is spending a silly sum (£39m?) to dual the northern side - but even then not the whole length of it!!
It really does beggar belief!
Oh, and just this morning I see that the Smart Motorway programme is being restarted..........

The M5 south of Birmingham was another classic which was only two lanes for years. Then lighting was installed for the section immediately south of Birmingham which was an improvement, then gradually over many years it was widened. But as you say a classic case of underestimating the growth of usage, in part brought upon by the economic benefits of good transport links.

 

[RogerL]

It beggars believe it was ever thought a remotely safe enough concept; now just a huge total waste of much needed funds right from its conception, through planning to execution, plus the wasted fuel its cost both in the build and user disruption caused.

It is hairy enough using the section of the M27 where now adopted running solo, and more worrying towing. Those few little refuges look way too small even if not in use if and when we might need one.

Yet we have 1,000s of miles of A-road non-motorway dual carriageways with the same speed limits and no hard shoulders.

We should have been investing in Stopped Vehicle Detection (SVD) systems for all roads which are monitored by camera, not just those with no hard shoulder - having experienced complete engine failure at 70 mph in the 3rd lane of a congested motorway, I can vouch for the fact that most drivers just wouldn't get to the hard shoulder so using it as a running lane isn't the issue.

 

[Gafferbill]

......and there has been many deaths associated with vehicles and their occupants stopped on the hard shoulder of non smart motorways.

 

[Buckman]

Yet we have 1,000s of miles of A-road non-motorway dual carriageways with the same speed limits and no hard shoulders.

We should have been investing in Stopped Vehicle Detection (SVD) systems for all roads which are monitored by camera, not just those with no hard shoulder - having experienced complete engine failure at 70 mph in the 3rd lane of a congested motorway, I can vouch for the fact that most drivers just wouldn't get to the hard shoulder so using it as a running lane isn't the issue.

We had similar where the car totally died on us and could not even open a window. Lucky for us we were not on the motorway towing the caravan although at the time we were away with the caravan, but not ting. Both had to be uplifted.

If it were a Smart motorway, I doubt very much if we would have made it as nowhere to pull over just coasting. Luckily when the vehicle did die on us I had the presence of mind to hit neutral and coast to the side of the road, but still blocked it.

 

[otherclive]

......and there has been many deaths associated with vehicles and their occupants stopped on the hard shoulder of non smart motorways.

Average time between stopping on hard shoulder and fatal accident is 12 minutes. Exit the car, and motorway hard shoulder is priority.

 

[Buckman]

Average time between stopping on hard shoulder and fatal accident is 12 minutes. Exit the car, and motorway hard shoulder is priority.

Agreed, but that could be difficult if on a Smart motorway as you will have to get out the car into a lane of traffic moving at high speed so your chances of making it maybe slim?

 

[otherclive]

Agreed, but that could be difficult if on a Smart motorway as you will have to get out the car into a lane of traffic moving at high speed so your chances of making it maybe slim?

I wasn’t attempting to compare the two different types, just that hard shoulders have to be respected. Also as you say if you can’t make it to a hard shoulder the risk increases substantially.

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

Yet we have 1,000s of miles of A-road non-motorway dual carriageways with the same speed limits and no hard shoulders.

We should have been investing in Stopped Vehicle Detection (SVD) systems for all roads which are monitored by camera, not just those with no hard shoulder - having experienced complete engine failure at 70 mph in the 3rd lane of a congested motorway, I can vouch for the fact that most drivers just wouldn't get to the hard shoulder so using it as a running lane isn't the issue.

Most A roads, even many dual carriage ways have substantial sections of rough ground which you can pull off onto, "soft shoulder"?

 

[otherclive]

Just a thought on this topic. Since motorways were installed drivers have been instructed to use the repeated emergency phones if they have broken down. This puts them straight through to a coordination Center who can locate the cars position, send out support and contact the drivers breakdown recovery company. Cannot think when I last saw anyone in the vicinity of an emergency telephone. Now with mobiles who do they call first and what number?

 

[Buckman]

Most A roads, even many dual carriage ways have substantial sections of rough ground which you can pull off onto, "soft shoulder"?

Just our luck that we never can find one when we really really need to! 😂 😂 😂

 

[Jcloughie]

Just a thought on this topic. Since motorways were installed drivers have been instructed to use the repeated emergency phones if they have broken down. This puts them straight through to a coordination Center who can locate the cars position, send out support and contact the drivers breakdown recovery company. Cannot think when I last saw anyone in the vicinity of an emergency telephone. Now with mobiles who do they call first and what number?

A very good point. Perhaps the number should be issued so that people can keep it for use in an emergency using their mobile. Much safer than trying to get to the next fixed phone.

Perhaps the number is already available, but I have never seen it put out there.


John

 

[otherclive]

A very good point. Perhaps the number should be issued so that people can keep it for use in an emergency using their mobile. Much safer than trying to get to the next fixed phone.

Perhaps the number is already available, but I have never seen it put out there.


John

Yes the Highways Agency have offered a telephone number. Because there will clearly be some stranded motorists who are unable to get to one of the emergency phones. But theses days I suspect with the majority having mobiles that’s their first action to use a mobile.

If you get into trouble on a motorway - go left

Knowing what to do in an emergency or breakdown will help keep you and others safe and make you feel more confident when you travel on England's motorways

nationalhighways.co.uk

 

[Dustydog]

......and there has been many deaths associated with vehicles and their occupants stopped on the hard shoulder of non smart motorways.

Bill, if you believe HMG statistics and that of the motoring press it seems twice as many die on Smart Motorways after a breakdown than on the regular hard shoulder.

 

[Woodentop]

Most A roads, even many dual carriage ways have substantial sections of rough ground which you can pull off onto, "soft shoulder"?

Motorways do if they are straight and clear, but get a bendy piece of road or anything that slopes away from the carriageway and you will find Armco - which is not forgiving!
The main issue is people. A few years ago two people were killed on the M1 in the North. The second car bumped into the back of the first - so of course you drive on to the next refuge, don't you? Nope, you stop there and then on a running lane and have an argument about it. That is until a truck comes round the bend behind you and piles both cars killing both drivers who were still arguing. It was clear from the police reports what had happened but the family of at least one of them tried to push a civil suit on the basis that the Highways Agency were at fault for making the road all-lane running. You couldn't make it up could you?

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

Just a thought on this topic. Since motorways were installed drivers have been instructed to use the repeated emergency phones if they have broken down. This puts them straight through to a coordination Center who can locate the cars position, send out support and contact the drivers breakdown recovery company. Cannot think when I last saw anyone in the vicinity of an emergency telephone. Now with mobiles who do they call first and what number?

999 if I’m in a live lane!

 

[Hutch]

999 if I’m in a live lane!

We were traveling home from France on the M25 clockwise around J7 A car about 200 yards Infront of us pulled off a slip road and suddenly flipped over back onto the hard shoulder of the motorway, I pulled over and stopped on the hard shoulder about 100 yards past the car. I ran back to check on the driver, thankfully she was OK but really shaken but able to walk, got her away,forward from the car and Rang 999 when the asked for location I gave them the locator mark nearest to me , they are every 100 meters I think, but they didn't know where that was, luckily a HGV saw the incident and had pulled over and shielded
the accident scene and had also called the Emergency services, which arrived within 20 minutes. Not sure why her car had flipped over.

Why are the location markers there if The emergency services don't know there location, French traffic reports tell you " Accident at marker 23 North an A1" also in English as you get closer to a Port

 

[JTQ]

Do the "emergency services" use the "what3words ///" system for location identifying?
It is something so many of the population that carry smartphones could use, void of the perceived challenges many seem to find with getting into "Latitude/Longitude" coordinates. Though the latter can be read off Google Maps which many Android smartphones have as a preinstalled app.

 

[Hutch]

Do the "emergency services" use the "what3words ///" system for location identifying?
It is something so many of the population that carry smartphones could use, void of the perceived challenges many seem to find with getting into "Latitude/Longitude" coordinates. Though the latter can be read off Google Maps which many Android smartphones have as a preinstalled app.

I have been told that emergency services "Do use" " what3words, but Google maps also have a Plus code facility. Where by you just pin your location on the map and then share the Plus code, in text or by WhatsApp. Or by voice to whoever your talking to.

 

[otherclive]

Do the "emergency services" use the "what3words ///" system for location identifying?
It is something so many of the population that carry smartphones could use, void of the perceived challenges many seem to find with getting into "Latitude/Longitude" coordinates. Though the latter can be read off Google Maps which many Android smartphones have as a preinstalled app.

Yes they do, but as well as Google/Apple maps there’s the OS Locate app for smart phones that gives a direct longitude-latitude read out. But even having the features on your phone it’s necessary to check them out periodically so you remain aware because when stress comes on minds don’t always stay the same as in a low situation.

 

[Jcloughie]

Yes the Highways Agency have offered a telephone number. Because there will clearly be some stranded motorists who are unable to get to one of the emergency phones. But theses days I suspect with the majority having mobiles that’s their first action to use a mobile.

If you get into trouble on a motorway - go left

Knowing what to do in an emergency or breakdown will help keep you and others safe and make you feel more confident when you travel on England's motorways

nationalhighways.co.uk

Thanks, number added to my contacts under SOS.

Quote:

Call National Highways on 0300 123 5000, then a breakdown provider for help.

John