Tiguan will not program to westfalia oem kit

[redleader]

Hi, I'd appreciate any help. I've probably posted in the wrong section, it is technical, but towbar technical rather than caravan.
I have a Feb 2015 VW Tiguan 177 DSG R Line. I've had a Witter detachable towbar fitted and the Westfalia OEM wiring kit 321600300153.

When I went to pick the car up, turned the ignition on and a message Fault: Tyre Pressure Loss indicator Curr. Not available, and the Tyre Pressure Loss light permanently illuminated.

The fitter tried to clear the alarm without sucess and as it was after closing time I agreed to take the car home. Then, the engine management warning started flashing amber, a message Error:Start Stop, and the cruise control no longer works!

The following day I had a VW assist engineer to have a look. 3 1/2 hours later he has cleared the alarms and put the blame to the Trailer Control module, "Gateway wont code to trailer function", he mentioned if trailer control unit disconnected the alarms clear.

I took the car on the request of the original fitting company to a local agent. He replaced the Trailer Control Module, and checked the cam bus wires as apparently some kits have the cam bus wire reversed. Without success, Westfalia now say the problem is with the car. The car has only done 3000 miles and before fitting had no alarms.

To try and get rid of the alarms I disconnected the red plug from the trailer control module. This actually made things worse, now as well as the original 4 issues, there is a message : The optical parking system is currently not available. Also, the bulb failure light is lit!!

I have arranged VW assist to attend again tomorrow. The kit is common to a lot of VAG vehicles. Has anyone had anything similar??

Any advice would be appreciated as I am almost pig in the middle between Westfalia and VW, both saying that their bits ok.

Many Thanks

Don

 

[ProfJohnL]

Oh dear Don.

I can't help at all regards the technical issue on this one. Brand New car, brand new towing kit and disaster. The two won't talk to each other. and both the car manufacturer and the tow kit manufacture are blaming each other and you are in the middle.

So damage limitation time. First and foremost keep a record of exactly what has happened and what continues to happen until the issue is resolved. Try and have written communications, so no one can dispute what they have said or agreed to.

Whoever you asked to fit the towbar electrics is contractually bound to you, to ensure what they do and fit, works satisfactorily. You have approached a specialist because they have an expertise this area, and they are legally required to use the experience and facilities to service this contract. If they were not certain of being able to fit the system correctly they should have refused to undertake the contract.

They are obliged :-
Not damage the customer's property.
To ensure the work they do is correctly specified and fit for purpose.
To return the customer's property either fully modified as per the contract, or in its condition prior to work commencing.

If a problem arises during the installation, then it is good practice to advise the customer, and to even consult the customer regarding what to do. but the legal onus is on the fitter to do no harm.

Who is responsible/liable to you?
Responsibility and liability follows the contract. You may have asked (and paid) your VW dealer to fit the system. Most car dealerships subcontract out this work to independants, but as far as you are concerned the VW dealer is your contract party and thus liable.

Alternatively you may have approached the fitting company directly, in which case they are liable to you.

If you do make any payment, I suggest you use a credit (not debit) card. PRovided the transaction is at least £100 (even if it's just a deposit), that invokes the Consumer Credit Act and under section 75 the finance provider is jointly responsible under Sale of Goods etc for the goods or services purchased. - more power to your elbow!

I suggest you lookhere

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/how-to-complain
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/how-to-complain-to-a-company
Use the form letters to complain to your contractor, rejecting the work they have carried out, and giving them a reasonable schedule to resolve the matter of to refund any monies already paid. But most importantly they must either fit (at their expense) a system that fully works, or recover the car to its original condition with none of the faults their work has induced.

Remember, you went to them because they are specialists, and you do not need to run around trying to have their unsatisfactory workmanship put right. If you do need to outsource remedial works, keep a log of time and expenses, which you incur.

Good luck

 

[redleader]

Thanks very much for your advice Prof. At the end of the day I'm sure it will be something simple, fingers crossed, but finding the cause is the problem!
A VW Ensurance technician should arrive in an hour or so, so I'll know more after that. If that fails, I am going to ask the towbar company for a brand new kit to be tried, not fitted initially, but simply laid out within the car and the appropriate wiring connections made and programmed. See if it works, if it does then dismantle the old kit and fit properly. If not, then I think I will ask them to remove the wiring completely and ask for a refund of that part of the installation, and ask the main dealer to fit. Even if they contract it out it will be their responsibility to get it working. If it should be a car problem it is under warranty, so there shouldn't be an issue.
I thought caravanning was meant to be a relaxing pleasure!! lol
It causes more frustrations than work..
Just as I was typing I received a phone call from VW Ensurance, the techie guy now cannot come until Monday morning, so the frustration continues....

 

[Dustydog]

Don.
Very upsetting.
I suspect it will be something very basic like a poor earth point made by the towbar installer.

 

[seth1]

There is a very simple way to rectify the problem and although not everyones taste,a simple bypass relay works a treat.Worth thinking about.

 

[Chrisjkerr]

Don. Hopefully I can shed some light but unfortunately it won't fix your issue, sorry if this reply goes on and on!

I've had VAG cars for a while now and to be honest, every single one of them with a dedicated Westfalia 13pin wiring kit has caused me some sort of issue. I don't think it's Westfalia to blame as they make the OEM kits for VAG cars that are fitted when the buyer selects Towbar prep at the order stage at the dealer. I think a lot of my issues was down to the fitter and that he hadn't updated his automated programming unit before he fitted my cars towing electrics.

The cars nowadays cannot really be hacked into with scotch locks, bypass relays and some soldered cables as most new vehicles approved for towing have trailer stability protection when the car is connected to the trailer/caravan. By bypassing this system, your car wouldn't know it was towing and all the usual parameters would be unchanged. The TSP is an add-on to the current traction control program of your car, It detects swaying and applies brakes where it's necessary. Without it when towing, It may void your insurance, not to mention the extra bit of safety it gives.

I had the Westfalia 13 pin dedicated electrics installed on my new 64 plate Audi A7 in March from my usual mobile fitter. He managed to code the car right upto the point where it codes the rear sensors and it failed. An hour on the phone to his support team and nobody had any ideas. I ended up leaving with a partly coded car.

Audi owed me a few favors so they tried coding the sensors for me FOC on Thursday last week.. They had a terminal 15 error in the ECU for the towing module which according to Westfalia support it maybe that my car hadn't had a fuse or indeed the correct amperage fuse fitted at the fitting stage and this could have attributed to the coding errors. Audi had a look and indeed, no fuse was fitted where it should have been. That cleared the terminal 15 error but they still couldn't apply the coding to the car. I was there 4 hours sat around waiting without an answer.

In the end I called Westfalia UK now based in Bristol (Westfalia purchased Britannia Towbars I think which is who these chaps used to be). The guy on the phone was great. He suggested lots of different things from wiring harness issues to cables not being connected to a faulty trailer module. In the end, he said that If I could drive to Bristol they'd fix it for me even though they never fitted the towing electrics originally!

What your issue sounds like to me anyway is that the towing module is more than likely fine from an electrical perspective. I expect that the coding hasn't been done correctly, partially or at all and the trailer module is causing havoc with the other systems on the car.

When the coding is running it basically tells the car to expect the trailer module and the different parameters when towing. For example when towing on some cars with adaptive cruise, it disables the function of the adaptive part as braking distances need to be increased for the extra load on the car. The TPMS system for tyre pressures is adapted for the extra load on the rear tyres. The alarm issue could be the coding of the alarm for when the caravan is connected to the car and someone tries to unhitch and disconnect the caravan from the car whilst the car is locked, usually this disconnection sounds the car alarm when it detects the drop in voltage,

Usually, for VAG cars that are being retrofitted with trailer modules or other electrical changes, the dealers require what's known as an SVM code (AUDI) or VW use VAS to code their cars. The SVM code is a 6 or 7 digit number that gets entered into a system where Audi can track changes made to the car at a dealer. I think VW and the VAS system is the same. Usually the dealer has this code for the retrofit, enters it onto the diagnostic system and that then codes the car accordingly from that particular SVM code. In my case, it didn't work!

There's another method known as VCDS which i think is made by RossTech. It's a piece of software that connects via a USB cable connected to your car using the OBD2 port usually located under the steering wheel from a laptop which then can be coded manually, the problem here is that the dealers and manufacturers don't like you using it to code your car manually as there's options in there that can change all sorts and could void warranty.

If I was you, I'd wait to see what the VW tech says. He'll more than likely check the wiring and fuses and should be able to see the module on the CAN gateway. He may even be able to code it for you if he has the kit.

If you don't get any joy from VW or your fitter, I would suggest speaking to Wesfalia UK again (0117 955 1011), speaking to a tech and try to get them to resolve it for you. Obviously driving to Bristol isn't ideal but if it fixes the issues then great, otherwise use the advice from Prof and see where it goes.

I'm calling Westfalia this morning to get the A7 booked in!

Chris

 

[redleader]

Update and I think Chris you have got it just about spot on!! Thanks!
The car has been programmed a number of times, first by original fitters then the local Indespension company who the original fitting company arranged for them to look at and also the VW Mobile Support Technician.
In the end, after leaving the towbar control unit disconnected (by me, red plug) then reconnecting it again after driving 20 miles or so, there was an Eureka moment a few miles later when all started working normally!
I arrange for the VW technician to come to check out, he connected his diagnostic kit and went through all the control units showing in error. All errors were historic and cleared without problem. Then he disconnected his diagnostic kit, took car for a drive, returned, reconnected the diagnostic kit and everything is now working correctly and error free.
He has a number of theories, but suspects mistakes occurred during the original programming / long coding, but cannot be sure. I will leave well alone, see what happens over the next few weeks. At least if it happens again I know that the car will still be serviceable, and the basic trailer functions will still be active, even though other car functions may be temporarily lost.
If anyone has a VAG (VW Audi Group) car, then I strongly recommend using their Ensurance scheme when under warranty. You have the choice of an AA patrol say for a tyre change or a tow in, or if you are prepared to wait longer, then a VAG trained technician using official VAG diagnostic equipment. will arrive. There was no charge whatsoever for him turning out twice, and in fact after his first visit he stressed to me to call him out again if required as a dealership will charge.
As mentioned, the original towbar fitting company did arrange for the local Indespension company to have a look for me, which was quicker than booking a visit from their own mobile team. Obviously I will monitor the situation, and if it should fail again, I will request a full reinstall at my home address in case of an intermittent wiring fault, but touch wood all seems ok now.
I know a lot more now about what is involved with fitting an OEM Westfalia wiring kit, and to be honest most of it is simple plug and play! No holes need drilling, all grommets are already fitted on the wiring loom so there should be no jagged edges or water leaks, earth connections end up right beside the official earth post so connection is easy and the wiring ends up in a panel below the steering wheel where the fuses are just above the diagnostic plug connection with the appropriate connectors just to plug in.
I know I've had hassles, but I still much prefer doing it this way than using a bypass relay, which in effect does bypass all the car systems so the car does not realise it is towing.
As Chris mentions, it is the programming where I believe mistakes are made. We shall see.....
Thanks to all for your input....

 

[Chrisjkerr]

Morning Don.

I'm glad you're all sorted now. I'm also glad it's more the programming rather than an incorrect wire or fuse causing other issues inside the car electronics! I've always had both bad and good arguments when it comes to VAG cars. They're more expensive than the equivalent non German brands but I'm always happy to pay the slightly higher premiums for in most cases better quality built car. The service too from certain Audi dealers can be non existent but like with everything, you just need to find a good one and build up a rapport with the staff. This is the same when I've had Golfs, a Scirocco and Touareg and have been serviced by the VW dealers.

On another note, I had excellent service at Westfalia UK in Bristol yesterday. I took the A7 down as the rear sensors weren't deactivating when selecting reverse when hitched. (See prev post above)

It took them literally 5 mins to take a look, quickly run through the automated tool again and hey presto, I now get the the little caravan/trailer icon on the screen and the rear sensors are now deactivated when hitched! Result! Got a free Coffee and use of the WiFi before heading home too!

Chris

 

[redleader]

Hi Chris, like you I do believe in VAG cars and in fact our household and family all have VAG cars. My previous car was a bought new Audi A4 Avant TDI S Line, which during my ownership did have problems with flaking paint around the wheel arch on both front wings and a slight clutch judder. But, it was resolved and on the occasions it was not resolved there was a bottle of champagne on the back seat, (paint had to be done twice, not Audi fault as outsourced to Audi approved bodyshop) and on the other occasion I took the car in empty, and they filled it up with diesel (exhaust joint was not tightened fully after clutch and flywheel were replaced at no cost)! So from negative situations it was turned round to a positive. So for me, well done Carlisle Audi! Other dealerships should learn from this!!
I don't want this to open the flood gates for people saying this or that is wrong with their VAG cars, I've had things wrong too, but it is simply my opinion and I will continue buying them because I do believe they are better than the rest..
It is a shame that there does seem to be a lack of knowledge with aftermarket suppliers such as towbar firms as cars become more and more complex! For both Chris and I it looks like a case of not being programed up correctly. Software is continually being upgraded, it could be that a towbar download is not compatible with the installed software. For someone that knows this, then it's an easy fix. But for someone that doesn't then lots of hassles for both supplier and customer!
Hope all goes well with yours Chris, and fingers crossed mine continues ok too!
Cheers
Don

 

[seth1]

One of the problems is non geniune diagnostic equipment whether its enabled for programing or diagnostics is never going to be as competent as the genuine equipment.Its constantly a game of catch up.

 

[redleader]

Agreed! In my case both towbar fitting companies used the Westfalia programming/diagnostic tool, (Blue Box). which was reassuring, but whose to know when it's own software was last updated. The VW guy used the official VAS diagnostic kit, perhaps it was that that made the difference?

 

[redleader]

Well, the fault came back!! Further investigation by the towbar fitting company who sent an engineer seemed to think fault was with car. VW Assist mobile technician thought fault was with fitting kit, but arranged for car to go to VW dealership for further investigation.
The dealership put car software back to factory build state, reconnected towbar wiring and fault came back straight away. They contacted me to discuss way forward. Towbar fitting company had previously refused to replace the full kit, so I asked the dealership to remove the wiring kit and replace with official VW wiring kit, (made by the same company, Westfalia). The result is that the VW kit installed and programmed perfectly, so after 3 months I now have a car that works as it should. The cost was £445, and I will be aiming for some form of reimbursement for the original kit and installation charge.
Westfalia have been most appologetic, and request the original kit is returned to them via fitting company for evaluation.
The next issue is to get some money back from the original fitting company! Watch this space!!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Redleader,

First of all I pleased you seem to have finally got a working towbar assembly.

Please re read my earlier post, and in the light of the successful application of he VW fit, it certainly calls into question the the fitness for purpose of the third party system you had fitted.

As your contract with the fitter was to fit a functional system, and the unit they supplied did not work correctly, they are still tied by the contract to supply a working assembly. You have given the fitters reasonable opportunity to remedy the situation, which were unsuccessful, you have encountered inconvenience in attempting to overcome the issues directly out their fitting, you can I believe ask them to cover all the costs you have incurred, including the additional cost of the official VW system.

Do remember you have no point of purchase contract with Westfalia. Your contract was with the fitting service who supplied and fitted an unsatisfactory product and they are liable to ensure you are not out of pocket for the failure of their product and service. It is up to the fitting service to resolve their contractual arrangements with Westaflia and that must not affect or influence the fitting services contractual arrangements with you.

 

[redleader]

Thanks for your words of advice Prof!
3 days now I have been trying to speak to the boss of the fitting company, so I am now communicating via e-mail so I have a record of events and updates. Speaking via a member of his staff, the boss has said "he is not avoiding me", and "he will be in touch once he has feedback from Westfalia".
Westfalia are going to send the kit to the actual manufacturer Hella for testing and evaluation, which will obviously take some time.
Do you suggest I post a copy of the VW invoice (which I have paid) to the fitting company requesting reimbursement?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again redleader.

I do believe that from the reports that you have made to the forum, that you have given the fitting service every reasonable opportunity to rectify the issues with the kit and fitting they have applied to your car. They failed to repair the fault, so you had to seek further assistance from the VW dealer.

SoGA requires the seller to take reasonable steps to rectify problems with goods or services they have sold, but if after a relatively short time they have failed to resolve issues the customer has the right to seek assistance from other places and charge the seller with their costs.

What I don#t know is if you told the fitters you were taking the car to VW. If you didn't tell them it might cause a bit of a problem, but if you did tell them then they had every opportunity to try again to resolve the problem.

I believe you do have a case to charge the fitters with your costs including the bill for the dealer fit system.

Please read the web sites I pointed to, and see how they suggest you write to the fitters.

Do conduct all negotiations by writing, and confirm the content and suggestions of any telephone conversations by email or post.

If you are unsure of any stage in this I suggest you seek direct assistance rather than relying of forum advice.

 

[redleader]

A final conclusion to this long running saga!
I sent a registered letter to the towbar fitting company along with the invoice from the VW dealership requesting response and payment within 30 days. Of course, as expected I heard absolutely nothing!
I will now name and shame this company as being,removed by moderator
I have also been dealing with Westfalia direct, and they have been fantastic, especially a lady in technical support called Tamzin. With no response from ,removed by moderator I called Tamzin for an update on the evaluation of the returned wiring kit, and also asked if there was anyway they could influence a response from ,removed by moderator, as my next way forward would have to be via a legal route. Tamzin explained that the kit had been returned to Germany and tested fine, but she said that 2 of the can-bus wire were in her words "brand new" and had not been connected. She also told me that Westfalia were so embarrassed by this whole saga, so they have agreed to pay the invoice from the VW dealership of £445 (via the fitting company), even though the problem was caused by incorrect installation.
Westfalia are an excellent company and highly recommended! ,removed by moderator? Have your own opinion....

 

[Parksy]

It's good to learn that the long drawn out issue involving your towbar fitting company, who it would appear have not offered best practice, has been resolved to your satisfaction.
The Practical Caravan website and forum do not have access to the facts of the matter, and while there's no reason to doubt your statement, the the transmission of complaints about companies or caravan parks, including the so called 'naming and shaming' of companies with which forum members may be involved in disputes with is specifically prohibited by Rule 4, Forum Etiquette.
It is for this reason that I have removed details which could identify the company involved.