Upgrade time

[Ste6t9]

Ok - hi all.

Not posted for a long time, but also not been anywhere for a long time.

Our kids have outgrown the van - we need something bigger.

What we are looking at gives us a 100.1% MTPLM to Kerb weight ratio.

Now I towed our smaller van all over Europe no problem at about 90%. We don't really fill the van that much and the car has 4 of us in it and a roof box if we have a lot to take. (I don't like cramming the van full of stuff)

Now I'm not a risk taker by any means but would like your honest opinions. - Basically we can either change the car or the van but not both. (and the kids don't fit in the bunks anymore)

Any guidance appreciated.

Ste

 

[audiorob]

perhaps if it is the car you would like to keep and upgrade the van you can let us know what your tug is and then people can reflect their experiences for you/

 

[Ste6t9]

perhaps if it is the car you would like to keep and upgrade the van you can let us know what your tug is and then people can reflect their experiences for you/

Of course.

The tow car is a 2018 Mitsubishi Outlander 2.2DiD auto.

Kerbweight is 1685kg. Which I’ve always thought seemed light for the size of car

 

[ProfJohnL]

It isn't possible to set a simple weight ratio as guide that guarantees safety or a good tow. Each outfit behaves differently, and there are some where 85% is too high and some where 100% is still very manageable.

Unless your driving licence or insurance policy has a lower stipulation. you can tow any trailer provided none of the tow vehicles statutory load limits are exceeded.

The outfit has to meet all road safety requirements of course, but may not be recommended,
The often quoted towing ratio (MTPLM/Kerbweight) is only an advisory figure, and has no basis whatsoever in law. But I personally always have suggested keeping the weight of any trailer as small as possible, and on that basis the advice is at least a starting point.

As a matter of advice I suggest you should consider a heavier tow vehicle or a lighter caravan

 

[Beachball]

Ok - hi all.

Not posted for a long time, but also not been anywhere for a long time.

Our kids have outgrown the van - we need something bigger.

What we are looking at gives us a 100.1% MTPLM to Kerb weight ratio.

Now I towed our smaller van all over Europe no problem at about 90%. We don't really fill the van that much and the car has 4 of us in it and a roof box if we have a lot to take. (I don't like cramming the van full of stuff)

Now I'm not a risk taker by any means but would like your honest opinions. - Basically we can either change the car or the van but not both. (and the kids don't fit in the bunks anymore)

Any guidance appreciated.

Ste

If you don"t fill the van i would upgrade but a lighter van and keep your car

 

[JezzerB]

Having towed for 3years and 30000miles with a 1285 kg Dacia Duster towing a 1400kg Pegasus I would most definitely keep both. It was 100% fine in every weather and never wobbled once even with unpleasant sidewinds, though I always drive to the conditions. No ATC on the Bailey either.

 

[Ste6t9]

Thanks all. I’m roughly in agreement that a lighter van/heavier tow car would be the best option, sadly the van is really the only one that ticks all boxes for Mrs Ste.

So it’s either wait till we’ve got the car swapped and then change the van or go with a 100% outfit then change the car later down the line.

 

[Ste6t9]

For reference - this is the matching detailes that come up for the proposed outfit:

 

[Buckman]

It is assumed that you have your B+E driving licence. However more to the point some insurance companies will refuse insurance if the caravan MTPLM exceeds 95% of the car's kerbweight so be wary of that one even though the vehicle can tow up to 2000kg.

 

[Ste6t9]

It is assumed that you have your B+E driving licence. However more to the point some insurance companies will refuse insurance if the caravan MTPLM exceeds 95% of the car's kerbweight so be wary of that one even though the vehicle can tow up to 2000kg.

Yes- passed test in 1992 and I also have a C license.

Just out of interest I’m going to run the car over the weighbridge this morning so I’ll report back on what that says.

 

[Buckman]

Yes- passed test in 1992 and I also have a C license.

Just out of interest I’m going to run the car over the weighbridge this morning so I’ll report back on what that says.

Any particular reason for taking it onto the weigh bridge? It is the figures on your VIN plate that counts and not the weigh bridge calculation.

 

[Ste6t9]

Any particular reason for taking it onto the weigh bridge? It is the figures on your VIN plate that counts and not the weigh bridge calculation.

Just generally interested and it’s on my way to work.

 

[Buckman]

Just generally interested and it’s on my way to work.

As a matter of interest are you weighing the vehicle as it came out of the factory, but including a full tank of fuel and yourself? No particular reason for asking, just interest.

 

[Ste6t9]

As a matter of interest are you weighing the vehicle as it came out of the factory, but including a full tank of fuel and yourself? No particular reason for asking, just interest.

As far as I can tell, it is just about as factory standard, nothing extra in it apart from me and about 9/10 of a fuel tank full

 

[Buckman]

As far as I can tell, it is just about as factory standard, nothing extra in it apart from me and about 9/10 of a fuel tank full

Before I do similar I would need to go on diet to get a more accurate figure. LOL! We will probably need to visit a weigh bridge when our new mattress arrives.

 

[Ste6t9]

So that was interesting:

I will go cautious and say that I only have 3/4 of a tank of fuel. I will also remove 10 kg from the figure for our dog crate in the boot (although it doesn’t weigh that much)

It was a dynamic axle weighbridge at the Port of Hull and it is most likely calibrated correctly because VOSA were using it as a truck checkpoint at the time.

Front axle was 1050
Rear axle was 810

The bridge reported the gross weight as 1860 kg.

I will even say that I am probably 50 kg heavier than the standard 75 kg so taking all that into account I will be even more cautious and say that I wouldn’t consider that the car completely empty weighs any less than 1750 kg.

However as you can see, the published kerb weight for this car is 1685 kg.
I know we have to go by the published figures on the plate for the car but this seems like quite a difference.

I am happy to be corrected on all of this as I may have missed something as well.

See below for pictures of my trip to the bridge

 

[Buckman]

I think the V5 or perhaps the VIN figure is the vehicle empty of fuel, liquids and people?

 

[Ste6t9]

Sorry, I didn’t mean the VIN or the V5 figures. I meant the figures that are published everywhere for this model. The number that comes up constantly is 1685 kg

 

[ProfJohnL]

.... However more to the point some insurance companies will refuse insurance if the caravan MTPLM exceeds 95% of the car's kerbweight so be wary of that one even though the vehicle can tow up to 2000kg.

I'm not suggesting this is incorrect, But when you insure a vehicle, the policy should cover the standard vehicle and all its specifications - including its towing capacity as determined by the type approval.

If an insurer wishes to restrict towing or any other activity the vehicle can legitimately be used for it must be clearly stated in the T&C's issued with the policy or its renewal.

You should of course tell your insurance company if the car is fitted with a tow bar, as this does constitute a modification to the standard vehicle. it doesn't usually affect the premium or the
T&C's but if it does the insurer must inform you.

 

[Buckman]

I'm not suggesting this is incorrect, But when you insure a vehicle, the policy should cover the standard vehicle and all its specifications - including its towing capacity as determined by teh type approval.

If an insurer wishes to restrict towing or any other activity the vehicle can legitimately be used for it must be clearly stated in teh T&C's issued with the policy or its renewal.

You should of course tell your insurance company if the car is fitted with a tow bar, as this does constitute a modification to the standard vehicle. it doesn't usually affect the premium or teh T&C's but if it does the insurer must inform you.

I was referring to caravan insurance and not vehicle. Apologies for the confusion.

 

[ProfJohnL]

So that was interesting:

I will go cautious and say that I only have 3/4 of a tank of fuel. I will also remove 10 kg from the figure for our dog crate in the boot (although it doesn’t weigh that much)

It was a dynamic axle weighbridge at the Port of Hull and it is most likely calibrated correctly because VOSA were using it as a truck checkpoint at the time.

Front axle was 1050
Rear axle was 810

The bridge reported the gross weight as 1860 kg.

I will even say that I am probably 50 kg heavier than the standard 75 kg so taking all that into account I will be even more cautious and say that I wouldn’t consider that the car completely empty weighs any less than 1750 kg.

However as you can see, the published kerb weight for this car is 1685 kg.
I know we have to go by the published figures on the plate for the car but this seems like quite a difference.

I am happy to be corrected on all of this as I may have missed something as well.

See below for pictures of my trip to the bridge

You should have received a printed copy of the results which includes the weighbridges limits of accuracy - only then can you make a fully informed assessment of the reported weights.

Published kerbweights are not a true representation of the vehicle you have, but relates to the generic model the manufacturer used for the type approval process. Consequently any variation to the standard equipment your vehicle may have will not be reflected in the published figures.

There are a whole host of manufacturing variations that will affect individual cars, for example the type of gear box, some paint finishes are heavier than others and it account for up to about 8kg. Tyres and or wheels, Thickness of carpets and upholstery materials, more powerful in car entertainment options have 5kg or heavier subwoofer, and as any engineer will tell you something as complicated as a car has so many different materials and each will have tolerances that will change weights. Don't forget all the knick-knacks in the door pockets and glove box - the umbrella and ice scraper in the boot etc....

There are few real occasions where anyone needs to know the kerbweight of their vehicle. from a legal perspective its the overall weight limits that are far more important, and you ability to ensure you do not exceed them.

 

[Raywood]

If you all no longer fit in the caravan then the only option seems to be change that. There are plenty of four berths that he car can tow without problem which should give you more room although without knowing the budget I cannot suggest the exact models. They will normally be the entry level caravans, but these have just about everything you need on board anyway.
Personally I would not want to tow at 100% and as someone who investigated the accidents and handled the insurance claims I have seen towing too much go very wrong. My feeling is that 95% should be your absolute limit but you do also need to check your car insurance as some policies do have conditions on the weight as pointed out earlier.
The Prof is correct in that different combinations have very different towing results although yours should be a decent tow car. You will know how it manages with what you have and you can judge better than us if there is room to increase the weight towed. Do be aware that a larger caravan has a larger side area which can affect the towing a little although in my experience not a lot.

 

[Jcloughie]

I used to have a 2009 Peugeot 4007 man. (Outlander with a Peugeot engine). It towed my 1500 kg van without any issues * and I know people used them for much heavier vans. So, from curiosity I checked the specs.

Confusing to say the least, I have seen weights ranging from 1550, to 1825. The publishers often don’t say if the are quoting kerb or gross.


I know yours is a later model and an auto. But you just need to go by what is on the plate.

* After upgrading the rear springs and moving to standard wheels and dumping the low profile ones.

John

 

[JezzerB]

Why not just hitch up and try it. Think you'll be surprised at how it tows. Take it steady load carefully stay local.

 

[Ste6t9]

Why not just hitch up and try it. Think you'll be surprised at how it tows. Take it steady load carefully stay local.

would be nice. The van isn’t local sadly but we might pop for a look next week of all goes well.

Up till now it has towed our Sprite pretty much full plus the car having a roof box and the family like it’s not pulling anything.