Air pollution?

[otherclive]

Well up to your usual eloquent informative standard Prof. Thank you.👏

Sadly the desire to achieving Zero emission vehicles by 2030 is proving economically problematic.

I only read yesterday the Nissan Plant at Sunderland is considered under threat because of the financial levies/ fines placed upon them by HMG. Our own Business Secretary has just returned from Nissan Tokyo.

We await what the outcome of that visit and Sunderland will be later this week.

Nissan as a business is under threat and not just because of British policies. Their world sales have slumped. A recent negotiations with Honda broke up without agreement as Honda wanted majority share of any merger. Nissan rejected this despite Honda being five times larger. Honda also wanted Nissan to use Honda powertrains. Again rejected by Nissan. Yesterday it was reported that Nissan had little over 12 months left if nothing is done.

 

[woodsieboy]

I have reached an age, similar to several contributors , where my concerns have become mainly focussed on the sort of future my grandchildren can expect. The current rush to net zero , coupled with the hollowing out of our once world leading manufacturing, is in my view the latest act of treason by governments of all colour during my lifetime.
We have been consistently misled and lied to by people who are supposedly elected to protect and safeguard the people of this country
When I left school, there was a stigma to being unemployed, the pupils at school with me either went to university, college, and apprenticeship, or joined the forces,
You worked to pay your way, you saved what you could, and when I needed a mortgage to buy our first home, we had to show we had been saving with the building society to even be considered, I also had to have a letter from my employer stating that I needed a house.
There was a feeling that Britain was a good place to live, that opportuties existed to do well,we did't have the internet, we did have party line telephones, Sunday Closing, Police on the beat, local doctors where you could just pitch up and wait your turn.Buses ran regularly, trains ran mainly on time.
So how have we got where we are today, I trace some of it to the Thatcher years, the abolition of mortgage tax relief, the capitulation over the Poll Tax, the selling off of Council Housing, but not replacing the sold off houses.
Then there was the rush to join what was then the Common Market, more lies, and so it went on until today we have politicians hoodwinking us with the rush to net zero, we have the epedemic of mental health issues, we have the Blair Legacy of uncontrolled immigration, and the Iraq war and the Afghanistan disaster,
I have increasing fears for the direction we are heading, with Starmer, Trump and Putin, but in the meantime our Council Tax will go up again to fund the pension funds of the local authority workers, while money is wasted on frivolous projects, Google Trowbridge street furniture as an example, at the same time as potholes remain unfilled.
Why should I believe the current crop, of politicians,history suggests that most are incompetent or incapable, some have never had a job in industry, they fabricate their CVs, they hammer their expenses, what other job can you get that pays the thick end of £100k plus expenses with no qualifications
So while I do my bit by recycling and buying recycled products, I will still run our diesels. while I am allowed, i won't go to any town or city with a low emissions zone, as I am not welcome,and I will continue to treat everything I am told about''Climate Emergency,Net Zero,Raising Sea Level with a huge dose of cynicism.

 

[Hutch]

Very well written and exactly my own thought, and also of many of my friends of my 70 years but also of my son's friends of 40 years old.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I agree that you should question claims made about climate change, and I have often cited that how what has become the common practice or traditions, should never be taken at face value, they need to be challenged to se if their basis is still valid.

But I can say with honesty is that I have researched many aspects of the claims surrounding climate change, and I am satisfied that human activity has destabilised the natural rhythms which are now acting erratically producing far more frequent severe weather events across the globe. These events cannot be explained as following natural cyclical processes, but are abnormal, and their common roots seem to relate to humanities exponential exploitation of fossil fuels.

Whilst a lot of damage was caused before any of our generation were born, I do believe we have moral duty to try to do something about it whilst we still can, But those opportunities are dwindling as the key indicators are ramping up. towards the critical point where the factors will exceed the points of no return.

As it stands, the longer we leave taking action, the harder it becomes and it may be too late. Is that the legacy we want to leave for our children and further descendants?

 

[Dustydog]

I was surprised at the UK’s position on this table of polluters😢

CO2 Emissions by Country - Worldometer

Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Emissions by Country in the world with Global share of CO2 greenhouse emissions by country

www.worldometers.info

 

[ProfJohnL]

I was surprised at the UK’s position on this table of polluters😢

CO2 Emissions by Country - Worldometer

Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Emissions by Country in the world with Global share of CO2 greenhouse emissions by country

www.worldometers.info

So what are you going to do about it?

 

[Buckman]

So what are you going to do about it?

Why worry about it if the government is doing its best to wreck the economy anyway with their wild and unattainable net zero nonsense? After all, whether rich or poor, we are all going to suffer the consequences of their actions.

 

[otherclive]

Why worry about it if the government is doing its best to wreck the economy anyway with their wild and unattainable net zero nonsense? After all, whether rich or poor, we are all going to suffer the consequences of their actions.

I cannot see why there’s so much emotion wrt the target to achieve nett zero. For nearly 20 years our legislation has bound us to a 2050 target. Perhaps it’s because the hard part is still ahead of us.

The 2008 Climate Act committed the UK to reducing its greenhouse gas emissions by 80% by 2050 compared to 1990 levels, formed the Committee on Climate Change, and established UK carbon budgets. In June 2019, this was strengthened,1 committing the UK to bring all greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6569cb331104cf000dfa7352/net-zero-government-emissions-roadmap.pdf

 

[Buckman]

I cannot see why there’s so much emotion wrt the target to achieve nett zero. For nearly 20 years our legislation has bound us to a 2050 target. Perhaps it’s because the hard part is still ahead of us.

The 2008 Climate Act committed the UK to reducing its greenhouse gas emissions by 80% by 2050 compared to 1990 levels, formed the Committee on Climate Change, and established UK carbon budgets. In June 2019, this was strengthened,1 committing the UK to bring all greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6569cb331104cf000dfa7352/net-zero-government-emissions-roadmap.pdf

Dreamt up by politicians so that we could be taxed even more to help pay for their gold plated pensions!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Why worry about it if the government is doing its best to wreck the economy anyway with their wild and unattainable net zero nonsense? After all, whether rich or poor, we are all going to suffer the consequences of their actions.

Why do you think "net zero" is nonsense and "wild and unattainable?

Net zero may be difficult but its not impossible. Its certainty aspirational, and it makes good sense to stop polluting our environment more than we already have done.

Why should I have to suffer the pollution you seem so intent on selfishly producing by unnecessarily burning fossil fuels and throwing in excess of 70pence in every £1 away, not to mention the fuel duty, when there is a viable renewable alternative which wastes much less energy?

 

[Buckman]

Why do you think "net zero" is nonsense and "wild and unattainable?

Net zero may be difficult but its not impossible. Its certainty aspirational, and it makes good sense to stop polluting our environment more than we already have done.

Why should I have to suffer the pollution you seem so intent on selfishly producing by unnecessarily burning fossil fuels and throwing in excess of 70pence in every £1 away, not to mention the fuel duty, when there is a viable renewable alternative which wastes much less energy?

You do not have to be a genius to figure out why! I love using my diesel just to drive around the block. Please tell us about this so called viable renewable alternative which wastes much less energy as that is a myth!

 

[Dustydog]

So what are you going to do about it?

Not follow net zero by 2030. Totally unachievable and unaffordable. I’d suggest an achievable date might be 2040 by which time technology and alternative fuels will be available at an affordable cost for all.

For any campaign , no matter what it is , must be achievable by the entire populace in a sensible and affordable time scale.

Both our cars are clean. The Kia VED is £30 pa. The VW uses Adblue and overall its pollution levels are low compared to most. I don’t fly on aeroplanes.😎

 

[otherclive]

Not follow net zero by 2030. Totally unachievable and unaffordable. I’d suggest an achievable date might be 2040 by which time technology and alternative fuels will be available at an affordable cost for all.

For any campaign , no matter what it is , must be achievable by the entire populace in a sensible and affordable time scale.

Both our cars are clean. The Kia VED is £30 pa. The VW uses Adblue and overall its pollution levels are low compared to most. I don’t fly on aeroplanes.😎

Who in a position of authority has actually said we must achieve nett zero by 2030?

 

[Buckman]

Who in a position of authority has actually said we must achieve nett zero by 2030?

I am astounded that you do not know who is driving the UK into oblivion and making us a laughing stock with his ambition!

 

[woodsieboy]

Now then, you need to play nicely, it is clear to me that there is a notable difference in opinions over the 'net zero challenge', although most posters on here appear to accept that we can all do some things in our own way to help, as in cleaner diesels, and using products made from recycled materials.
The big dividing line for me seems to be the obsession with which we are being forced down a 'green ' path towards what the current government considers we need to do , to lead the world in signalling our green credentials.
I hear different quotes that people attribute to justify the Climate Emergency, Global Warming arguments,but I can equally find other claims that are the opposite.
The evidence I rely on is my own ,my eyes and ears are still working, I see what was once productive farm land covered in solar panels I see small towns that had local industries dominated by charity shops, mobile phone shops , naILbars and coffee shops.
I see pubs closing or opening less.
I see increases in energy prices, I see polluted waterways,I see potholes, overgrown verges and poorly maintained public buildings
I see minorities taking priority in businesses, I see local govermnet out of touch with electors, I see national government hooked on the net zero , and constantly telling us the country has no money, but then can find it for Ukraine, Syria, and any other pet projecct, while continuing to impoverish the UK genrally
Why should I believe the green propoganda, when 'my evidence' suggests that the price of getting to net zero will leave this country impoverished , and reliant on other countries, once we
are unable to develop our own resources to provide independent energy.

 

[otherclive]

I am astounded that you do not know who is driving the UK into oblivion and making us a laughing stock with his ambition!

You have not read the links in my above posts. The UK is legally obligated to achieve nett zero but by 2050. Why you chose 2030 is beyond me as I can find no reference to a politician referring to net zero by 2030. Are you confusing the EV v ICE dates of 2030/2035? And why have you opted to bring forward net zero from 2050 to 2040? Nice if it were achievable but at what extra cost to the country?

 

[Dustydog]

Who in a position of authority has actually said we must achieve nett zero by 2030?

Are you serious Clive or teasing us mortals🙉

 

[otherclive]

Not follow net zero by 2030. Totally unachievable and unaffordable. I’d suggest an achievable date might be 2040 by which time technology and alternative fuels will be available at an affordable cost for all.

For any campaign , no matter what it is , must be achievable by the entire populace in a sensible and affordable time scale.

Both our cars are clean. The Kia VED is £30 pa. The VW uses Adblue and overall its pollution levels are low compared to most. I don’t fly on aeroplanes.😎

You have not read the links in my above posts. The UK is legally obligated to achieve nett zero by 2050. Why you chose 2030 is beyond me as I can find no reference to a politician referring to net zero by 2030. Are you confusing the EV v ICE dates of 2030/2035? And why have you opted to bring forward net zero from 2050 to 2040? Nice if it were achievable but at what extra cost to the country.


And Adblue does nothing to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

 

[otherclive]

Are you serious Clive or teasing us mortals🙉

Serious. I’m well aware of who is being targeted but has he ever said we must get to nett zero by 2030?

 

[Dustydog]

Serious. I’m well aware of who is being targeted but has he ever said we must get to nett zero by 2030?

Surely this is clear?
No semantics

 

[otherclive]

Surely this is clear?
No semantics

Yes it’s in line with the statement in the link below. Buts it’s not nett zero by 2030 its decarbonisation of the grid supplies. A significant difference.

Energy Secretary Ed Miliband sets out his priorities for the department

Message from Ed Miliband following his appointment as the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero.

www.gov.uk

 

[Dustydog]

Are the grid supplies the same as your #93?

At the end of the day my own input will make no difference.
Back in the day we used to say they keep moving the goal posts😜
Must go and replenish the diesel in my super comfy polluter ready for our next trip😛

 

[Buckman]

You have not read the links in my above posts. The UK is legally obligated to achieve nett zero but by 2050. Why you chose 2030 is beyond me as I can find no reference to a politician referring to net zero by 2030. Are you confusing the EV v ICE dates of 2030/2035? And why have you opted to bring forward net zero from 2050 to 2040? Nice if it were achievable but at what extra cost to the country?

Who cares as I will be dust by then!

 

[woodsieboy]

Surely the issue is not that we are aimimg for 2050, as Clive says, because we are legally bound to the agreement from 2008,but who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to commit us legally to a target that was so far away at the time. Or was it so far away that the politicians of the time knew that they would not be around to take the blame when the country is in ruins.
It seems to me that they cynically agreed to the binding target,based on the hope that technology would develop the systems needed to hit the target,and polish their green credentials,I suspect that the only way that the target will be achievable is for the technology to develop the wind,solar,wave and nuclear options, but it is a calculated gamble,and no one can see into the future,or is it a case that once again the politicians who agreed the 2008 target for 2050 were playing fast and loose with the truth?

 

[ProfJohnL]

You do not have to be a genius to figure out why! I love using my diesel just to drive around the block. Please tell us about this so called viable renewable alternative which wastes much less energy as that is a myth!

In the case of transport, it is beyond doubt and certainly not a myth, that EV's are significantly more energy efficient than any form of IC engine.