Caravan Club breaking news...

[Gabsgrandad]

I find your comments rather confusing Parksy, in one breath you are telling us “You have never been a member and never will be”, then in the next breath you are telling us that “you don’t like the regimentation and the curtain twitching one upmanship often seen on CC sites. “ - Now how would you know, if you’ve never been a member? - I/we have been members for 40 years and we don’t recognise your description at all, we have stayed on some 80+ different CC sites(some many times over) ,and never experienced your notional problems. and also many many cl’s, up and down the country. Our last stay was at York in December. I don’t recall seeing any curtains twitching or feel anyone was expressing ‘one upmanship’, or interested in me and mine one jot. I suspect you have a stereotypical image that someone has portrayed to you, -- totally false. And as for regimentation, I don’t know what you are talking about! If you mean organisation then yes there is organisation, but one hell of alot of caravanners want to know where they stand, particularly in respect of their possessions and can almost be 100% sure that their possessions will be safe and secure & respected by other members on CC sites.
The only behavioural problems we have experienced when vanning have been on private sites. Examples of which have been noise, ball games, including cricket with a hard ball within yards of our van, Frisbees, footballs, the dreaded swing ball, kites, water fights, etc, etc, and we have done many many private sites as well, some events can became quite confrontational at times, but never had this on a CC site.

 

[Dustydog]

And the Devil casts his net :evil:
Sir Gab
That was a very well structured , eloquent and honest piece of prose I have read on here for ages. :cheer:
What are you on ? I want some B)

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Perhaps Parksy is one of those non-members that are allowed on some CC sites.

 

[Thingy]

Ah well, time to be Beelzebubs advocate.

Replying in particular both to Gabsgrandads latest post and that of Parksy too.

I wholeheartedly concur that when you have mega thousands of pounds worth of rig, you want a lttile bit of common sense organization, and hopefully (not always the case) wardens with enough stones to back it up.

I have found the caravan community in general to be both helpful and friendly, yes there is a little bit of unit envy when you talk to people and I am as guilty as everybody else. Its not one-upmanship but more admiring what somebody else uses. I have found most caravanners chatty, ready, willing and able to help in a crisis and generally all round good fun. How many times do we see other vanners helping out with a push, or needed tool, or helping with the awning when its windy. We do it because we are all in the same boat and may need that help ourselves one day. We are sociable too, else we may as well go park alone in a field.

But all that seems to be changing, and I apologise in advance because I am sure not all motorhomers are this way. But rarely, if ever, do you see a motorhomer coming out to help in adversity. Many of them walk past with no intention of being sociable. Many seem almost surprised if you speak first. These for me are the curtain twitchers. It sounds as if I am being harsh, but really, I think they just don't get the ethos of what being "in the club" is all about, and that is a shame. I feel the very nature of the club has changed irrevocably.

Caravanning in the old days was much more rough and ready than today, and thats where most of us cut our caravanning teeth. No wonder the motorhomers dont get it. The exceptions to this seem mainly to be the younger ones and those that have progressed to motorhomes, whether through infirmity or convenience but really, the carravanning idyll is almost an apprenticeship.

We have been CC members for a long time and for the first time, I am thinking of not renewing. Its nothing to do with this ridiculous rebranding though I feel the money could have been put to better use, but more that the very face of club caravanning has gone.

EDIT to say
I wonder if we are allowed to join the motorhome club?

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

One name change in 110 years isn't bad. Before I retired I was with a company for 20 years and it had 9 name changes in that time. hmy: :evil:

 

[Dustydog]

One name change in 110 years isn't bad. Before I retired I was with a company for 20 years and it had 9 name changes in that time. hmy: :evil:

You were a Politician

 

[Parksy]

The negativity from C&MC members on this and other caravan forums regarding the re-branding of the Caravan Club appears to show that their management and marketing team haven't handled this venture very well at all.
From what I've seen, CC (now C&MC) members are resistant to change, especially when irrelevant and meaningless marketing buzz words are used by young high flyers who have apparently not consulted members about casting aside tradition and spending money on a marketing exercise.
I'm not a C(&M)C member and never will be, I dislike the regimentation and the curtain twitching one-upmanship often seen on CC sites, but there's no doubt that if quiet holidays with unwritten conventions, rules and clinically clean toilets are your thing this club fits the bill. :lol:
Joking apart, the C&MC is a premier club with top line washing and toilet facilities for members and it's a shame that this re-branding, which should ensure the future of the club, has caused so much upset.
The C&MH is financially buoyant, but with little prospect of available land for new sites and not much else apart from routine planned upgrades to spend money on, it's doubtful if the logo change and new ethos will have much impact on the bank balance.
I hope that C&MC members, whether in motorhomes or caravans, will soon get over the re-brand and enjoy their stays on some of the best sites in the country.
As a non member I wish the C&MC continued success for the future

I find your comments rather confusing Parksy, in one breath you are telling us “You have never been a member and never will be”, then in the next breath you are telling us that “you don’t like the regimentation and the curtain twitching one upmanship often seen on CC sites. “ - Now how would you know, if you’ve never been a member? - I/we have been members for 40 years and we don’t recognise your description at all, we have stayed on some 80+ different CC sites(some many times over) ,and never experienced your notional problems. and also many many cl’s, up and down the country. Our last stay was at York in December. I don’t recall seeing any curtains twitching or feel anyone was expressing ‘one upmanship’, or interested in me and mine one jot. I suspect you have a stereotypical image that someone has portrayed to you, -- totally false. And as for regimentation, I don’t know what you are talking about! If you mean organisation then yes there is organisation, but one hell of alot of caravanners want to know where they stand, particularly in respect of their possessions and can almost be 100% sure that their possessions will be safe and secure & respected by other members on CC sites.
The only behavioural problems we have experienced when vanning have been on private sites. Examples of which have been noise, ball games, including cricket with a hard ball within yards of our van, Frisbees, footballs, the dreaded swing ball, kites, water fights, etc, etc, and we have done many many private sites as well, some events can became quite confrontational at times, but never had this on a CC site.

And the Devil casts his net :evil:
Sir Gab
That was a very well structured , eloquent and honest piece of prose I have read on here for ages. :cheer:
What are you on ? I want some B)

It was certainly well structured in that the reply was carefully directed at selected phrases, but it would have been even more honest if Gabs hadn't missed out one key phrase from my earlier post.
I've highlighted the missing phrase in my quote, but in case anybody missed it it was the bit that said 'joking apart', written immediately before I went on to praise the C&MC and to wish them every success for the future.
As it happens, I have visited one or two CC sites (not CL's) and in fact we experienced one particular instance of real curtain twitching, and yes, they actually had proper net curtains on their touring caravan windows!
I found this highly amusing at the time, and I confess that this incident led to the inclusion of the phrase about curtain twitchers.
Having spent a good few years reading comments and gripes about windbreaks, the crossing of pitches, children on sites, weekend only pre-bookers, how much nicer C&MC toilets are compared to those on C&CC sites and all the rest of it from CC members, rightly or wrongly I do get a perception of one-upmanship and resistance to change that comes across to me in some of the comments.
I read many forum comments about the poor quality of touring caravans. We bought ours from new and I'm lucky enough to be able to say that our caravan met and exceeded our expectations with no problems, but the forum comments about shoddy workmanship etc; could easily give the impression that all new caravans suffer problems.
Perhaps then the stereotypical image has been portrayed through some of the internet forum comments from members, and although it may be an incorrect generalisation the C&MC obviously felt that their image needed some work otherwise why would they bother with such a radical strategy that involved changing the name of your club?

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am truly amazed with some of the comments made on this thread. I really did not know how bigoted and prejudicial some caravanners can be against motorcaravanners.

Rather than generalising and black spotting all motorhomers without thinking, just stop and really consider what difference the CC's change of name is going to make to you personally.

Here are some alternative truth's for you to mull over.

In the C&MC's own historic pages there is reference to

"1983 Link House sells its remaining shares to The Caravan Club Limited, ensuring The Club’s total independence."

All it is telling us is that Link house now longer have any influence over the club. The clue is in the Caravan Club Limited, it is operating as a business, And the raison d'etre of all businesses is to make enough money to cover their running costs and hopefully enough to reinvest to sustain their position or to grow, And to make owning shares attractive by paying a dividend to shareholders.

"Back in 1967 A motion to allow motor caravanners to become members of The Club is carried."

So motorhomes have been a part of the CC's cohort for at least 50years!

So its not been a true club from what I can gather the 1930's. And all that has really changed is the clubs name and logo.

So why are some people getting so worked up about including motorcaravanners now?

 

[Thingy]

Prof
There is nothing bigoted about it. I and Im sure so have others noticed a difference between the outlooks of the two different camps.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof
There is nothing bigoted about it. I and Im sure so have others noticed a difference between the outlooks of the two different camps.

Have you personally met all the UK's motorcaravanners and are therefore in a position to characterise them all in that way.

Sorry Thingy but that is just not right or fair.

 

[Hutch]

We enjoy the company of tenters, tin tenters and Tin Tenters with engines, we all have the love of getting out and enjoying ourselfs. Which ever Club, they are all businesses, just enjoy.

 

[Dustydog]

Prof.
Before I go dog on you do you want to modify and tell the truth? The whole truth.
Your statements are misleading and not the truth.
I'm very surprised for a forumite of your calibre you are trying to make the foot fit the slipper!

 

[RayS]

I come to this thread a little late due to Spanish internet problems but I am very much with the views of this being unnecessary, undemocratic, a waste of money etc.
Something of this nature should have been put as a motion at the AGM or vote by individual members.
Reading CC members discussion ( which is far from easy to use - another bad decision) there are no answers to questions such as what are the objectives and targets ? How will success be measured ? How much has/ will this all cost both absolutely and as a percentage of annual sub ?

The Head Office explanationation has some of the most meaningless management consultatnt type speak it has ever been my misfortune to read. No way will it get a Plain English award.

It seems now that a motor van owner will be able to prebook a specific pitch on a Club site but the owner of a trailer caravan will not. So look forward to vast blocks of large motor homes which currently make Spanish sites resemble container ports.

I joined CC in 1967, have contributed to the archives and magazine and enjoyed the historical association. I shall probably continue membership for Red Pennant and other insurances and for use of CL's ( incidentally, will CL owners be allowed to say trailer caravans only as they can adults only ?. )

A classic cae of ignoring the dictum 'If it isn't broken don't fix it'

Chairman and CEO should decalre targets for increased membership in two years and immediately resign if these targets are not reached. There should be no fee incease over the same period.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof.
Before I go dog on you do you want to modify and tell the truth? The whole truth.
Your statements are misleading and not the truth.
I'm very surprised for a forumite of your calibre you are trying to make the foot fit the slipper!

Dusty Which statements are you questioning?

 

[Thingy]

It seems now that a motor van owner will be able to prebook a specific pitch on a Club site but the owner of a trailer caravan will not.

Where are you getting this information from, because if this is correct its outrageous.

Im wondering if anybody else has picked up on the point that as most motorhomes do not use an awning, the Club, sorry business, will be able to squeeze the pitches closer together and get more in.

 

[Parksy]

It seems now that a motor van owner will be able to prebook a specific pitch on a Club site but the owner of a trailer caravan will not.

Where are you getting this information from, because if this is correct its outrageous.

Im wondering if anybody else has picked up on the point that as most motorhomes do not use an awning, the Club, sorry business, will be able to squeeze the pitches closer together and get more in.

Generally speaking Motorhomes tend to use hard standings so the distance between them is unlikely to change, and in any case the law specifies the minimum distance between pitches.
The information given on the C&MC website states that no group of members will receive preferential treatment when pitches are booked.

 

[Thingy]

Take your point Parksy, but even with the firebreak, smaller pitches could increase the numbers. perhaps Im just being pessimistic.

 

[chrisn7]

On Friday, I spoke with the CC chairman at the NEC, and voiced some of the same concerns raised by others, such as the lack of consultation, the ditching of the iconic pennant, the weakness of the Walls Ice cream style logo etc etc. I was assured that members had been surveyed, though I have not seen any prior mention of this. The pennant will live on in the Red pennant insurance product, and apparently one of the reasons for the new sign/logo is that members said they found the existing signage hard to spot when arriving at a site.....It was also his view that members would still continue to refer to the 'Caravan Club' which rather begs the question 'Why change then...?' I also pointed out that the trend among big organisations is towards a short name - Google, Apple, Uber, Tesco, Santander and so on - there's loads of them, but here we are with an even longer name.
To be honest all the chairman's replies were couched in marketing speak with a pretty strong whiff of corporate BS about them.

Curiously, elsewhere on the stand were a few 'independent' younger people, and we also spoke with a very pleasant young man, and his conversation was conducted in the way the Chairman's should have been earlier. The contrast was striking to say the least. These people were engaged there to canvas views from members, and he confirmed that of all the people he had met, no one at all had been surveyed, so it would be interesting to understand which groups and how many of each have been sampled...
I mentioned to him that the CC didn't seem to have learned the lesson of consultation after the CC website fiasco, and the combination of things like this, increased site fees, and the car park regimented appearance of sites was now turning me away as a customer. It appears that these were frequently mentioned by others too.
Certainly this gentleman grasped the points I made, and promised that mine and those of others would be passed. on although If the chairman's attitude is representative of the rest of the Board, they won't be listening.
At least on this occasion I had an opportunity to express a view.

 

[mealsonwheels]

We've just received our new Sites Directory and it's appalling that whoever designed the cover picture was short sighted enough to only show a motorhome on it, with not a caravan in sight

 

[Dustydog]

Prof.
Before I go dog on you do you want to modify and tell the truth? The whole truth.
Your statements are misleading and not the truth.
I'm very surprised for a forumite of your calibre you are trying to make the foot fit the slipper!

Dusty Which statements are you questioning?

Prof;
I was surprised at your comment calling some forumites on here bigoted. You for one have said in the past everyone is entitled to a view . So what has changed?

The reference to Link House taken in isolation is very misleading indeed.

The only connection Link House ever had with the Club was the publication and printing of its magazine originally called The Caravan and Trailer Magazine which later became En Route and now , well until a few weeks ago The Caravan Club Magazine.

What shares? None I am aware of . I do agree in 1983 Link sold their rights to the Magazine back to the Club. I believe but am not certain it was for a peppercorn sum .
Since 1959 The Club has been registered as a Private company limited by guarantee without share capital . There are Directors but in essence it is The Membership that own the Club. The reference to "business" in your script I feel is misleading and perhaps not correctly explaining the situation as it actually is.
My best advice to everyone on here is to research the History of the Club yourselves and make up your own minds.
Now Prof I am going out in the spring air for a walk with the dogs and the enjoy my latest copy of The Caravan and Motorhome Magazine. :cheer:
Next month I suspect it will be called The Touring Caravan and Motorhome Magazine

 

[camel]

If the new naming of the CC is going to end up with a us and them, what about the people I have seen and more than likely you have seen on site with a motor home towing a caravan on the same pitch,

 

[travellerone]

My membership was due 1st March so I have cancelled.

 

[Thingy]

There has been a lot said about consultation or lack of it and it appears that most people didnt know anything about this until it happened. So, who exactly was involved in the discussion. This is from a CC member of staff on the CC own discussion forum

The change in name and logo were based on your feedback and in consultation with your representatives on the Committee. Together, we’re embarking on a journey of investment in the future of our Club.

So basically, the only people involved were the caravanner of the year and his accolites.

 

[Martin24]

Oh for goodness sake it has always been them and us, or for as long as I can remember, from growing up to now. Unless you have owned both outfits for a reasonable amount of time (more than one season) you can't really comment. I have never motorhomed have no desire to and have no understanding of the mindset. Ditto lifelong motorhomers view on us caravaners.

When it comes to accusing people of being bigoted, it is completely unnecessary, personal comments and attacks are not part of our community and should at no time be allowed. It really rather upsets me when grown adults get so petty and nasty.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

I see the CC's own forum now has over 1400 replies on the topic in just 4 days. hmy: