I honestly cannot see the piont you are making, whats up
could you not find anything more damming than this!
How about checking the % of legal immigrants who claim dole,
compared to natives of these shores!!!!!
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I honestly cannot see the piont you are making, whats up
could you not find anything more damming than this!
How about checking the % of legal immigrants who claim dole,
compared to natives of these shores!!!!!
Did you not read the report, I did.See....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6679755.stm
What I found amazing reading the government report is that 57,657 immigrants were successful in applying for child benefit. That is 57,657 x how many children they have. So in summary they can step off the plane/ship and immediately collect handouts from us, the taxpayer and send the money home.
I couldn't be bothered to look at the applications for tax-funded, income-related benefits or applications for Tax Credits because the above was enough and with it being a government report it's bound to be toned down :O(
Legal Immigrants have now taken our jobs, which leaves natives no choice but to claim dole??? Liz
Did you not read the report, I did.
Legal Immigrants have now taken our jobs, which leaves natives no choice but to claim dole??? Liz
What a silly statement! which jobs are these then, that
they have taken!
What you fail to grasp is there is not such a big diference
between those natives, who leave these shores for better
employment than those that come in to replace them!!
This countries wealth is based in a greater part to the influx
of these so called overseas workers!
Frankly at this rate the only thing we will be able to export
will be moaners..... and theres not a market for them...
You took the bait then!!What a silly statement! which jobs are these then, that
they have taken!
What you fail to grasp is there is not such a big diference
between those natives, who leave these shores for better
employment than those that come in to replace them!!
This countries wealth is based in a greater part to the influx
of these so called overseas workers!
Frankly at this rate the only thing we will be able to export
will be moaners..... and theres not a market for them...
Those who leave these shores, not as many,
so what you are saying those who leave are replaced by overseas workers. Now that is silly.
I am not a moaner just realistic.
"How about checking the % of legal immigrants who claim dole,
compared to natives of these shores"!!!!!
What a stupid statement to make gio. It doesn't matter what the % of the native population is that claim benefits compared to immigrants. It could be 10% or 100%. All it goes to prove is that we are quite capable of breeding our own without importing them ;O)
compared to natives of these shores"!!!!!
What a stupid statement to make gio. It doesn't matter what the % of the native population is that claim benefits compared to immigrants. It could be 10% or 100%. All it goes to prove is that we are quite capable of breeding our own without importing them ;O)
Didn't call you a moaner, what bait.You took the bait then!!
Those who leave these shores, not as many,
so what you are saying those who leave are replaced by overseas workers. Now that is silly.
I am not a moaner just realistic.
There are far more important issues that affect people
here than a few overseas workers!
It seems the il informed/lazy what everything on a plate, and
blame anyone and everything.
All these people are doing is getting on their bikes.. remember
that saying?
Yet some would taint all of them because of a few........without
the full facts and using there predujices or bigoted views...
The Bait was not directly towards you personally, someone had to bring up people leaving these shores for work, thats means their is more room for overseas workers to come here, it does not balance out, more come in, than go out.Didn't call you a moaner, what bait.
There are far more important issues that affect people
here than a few overseas workers!
It seems the il informed/lazy what everything on a plate, and
blame anyone and everything.
All these people are doing is getting on their bikes.. remember
that saying?
Yet some would taint all of them because of a few........without
the full facts and using there predujices or bigoted views...
There are lazy people, I do not disagree, there are people who claim dole who are not entitled,housing benefit etc,etc,
but they do get caught in the end, but overseas workers, who come here sometimes its hard to trace them, earn the wages,live here,send money home, that is not fair, you must agree.
Liz
LB"What I found amazing reading the government report is that 57,657 immigrants were successful in applying for child benefit."
OK so that means 57,657 of the immigrants are young families.... It does not mean the parents are on the dole.... Please as people post figures and statistics think about both sides. All it does is stir up biggotted remarks from the narrow minded. We do not owe them any more than they are legally entitled to in the same way as the rest of the population. Basic rights we all have access to have to be given to all of the population who contribute to society. If you work here and pay taxes and national insurance then you have the same rights as everyone else. Sorry Liz but you do seem hard done to and feeling bitter about migrant workers is just tough. If you feel they are getting your job you just have to ask why? Lower wage and cost cutting? If that is the case then it is down to the employer! If they can do your job better or work harder then that is your problem.
OK so that means 57,657 of the immigrants are young families.... It does not mean the parents are on the dole.... Please as people post figures and statistics think about both sides. All it does is stir up biggotted remarks from the narrow minded. We do not owe them any more than they are legally entitled to in the same way as the rest of the population. Basic rights we all have access to have to be given to all of the population who contribute to society. If you work here and pay taxes and national insurance then you have the same rights as everyone else. Sorry Liz but you do seem hard done to and feeling bitter about migrant workers is just tough. If you feel they are getting your job you just have to ask why? Lower wage and cost cutting? If that is the case then it is down to the employer! If they can do your job better or work harder then that is your problem.
Rich I think you are missing a few, of what I consider, important points in your reply to Lord B. and Liz. These immigrant workers have not contributed to this country regarding taxes, etc. like I have for all my working life and even now being retired I am paying tax on my pension. They have only recently entered this country and are expecting to be given the same benefits as someone born here. If they are working and contributing to the tax, etc., system then fair enough.
As far as taking our citizen's jobs they will work for far less pay than the average British citizen but the pay they do receive is more than they would have had back home in their native country. Would you be prepared to take a cut in wages and work longer hours if your boss turned around and said to you that either you work for less money and greater hours or you are out of work because he can get a foreign worker in to do the same job but for less money and longer hours.
This country over the years have fought long and hard via the trade unions to get decent wages and working conditions for our people and then these foreigners come in and abuse the system thereby putting our people out of work.
It is the same when companies close down in this country and take their buisiness abroad for lower wages such as Burberry and now today Remploy. Without hurting the feelings of Remploy employees what manufacturing employer will make alterations to their buildings and working patterns to employ physically/mentally handicapped people at the same rate of pay as an able bodied employee. It is obvious that they will not be able to work at the same pace as the fully fit worker thereby production will be reduced, costs rise and the next thing the factory closes and the work is out sourced to cheap foreign country labour.
As far as taking our citizen's jobs they will work for far less pay than the average British citizen but the pay they do receive is more than they would have had back home in their native country. Would you be prepared to take a cut in wages and work longer hours if your boss turned around and said to you that either you work for less money and greater hours or you are out of work because he can get a foreign worker in to do the same job but for less money and longer hours.
This country over the years have fought long and hard via the trade unions to get decent wages and working conditions for our people and then these foreigners come in and abuse the system thereby putting our people out of work.
It is the same when companies close down in this country and take their buisiness abroad for lower wages such as Burberry and now today Remploy. Without hurting the feelings of Remploy employees what manufacturing employer will make alterations to their buildings and working patterns to employ physically/mentally handicapped people at the same rate of pay as an able bodied employee. It is obvious that they will not be able to work at the same pace as the fully fit worker thereby production will be reduced, costs rise and the next thing the factory closes and the work is out sourced to cheap foreign country labour.
Rich, you are trying to make out something I didn't say again :O(
Nowhere did I say they were on the dole. What I'm saying for example is this...
Joe Bloggs works at Rover for 16 years and has been paying taxes all his working life. He is entitled to get something back out in child benefit.
Joe Polski steps off the plane and is entitled to the same benefits as Joe Bloggs, the only difference is he hasn't paid anything into the coffers. Whats more, the benefit he gets he sends back home, he doesn't even spend it in this country.
gio made another silly statement hidden away in comments.....
"There are far more important issues that affect people
here than a few overseas workers"!
640,000 of the governments admission but according to Migration Watch nearer 1 million. Thats not accounting for the self employed. Neither does it account for the 1 million estimated unaccountable illegal immigrants.
gio, not even anyone with the wildest imagination could hardly call that a few. Could they?
Nautilus said that I would make a good politician and I'm sure you would also if you could convince others that those figures were only a few :O)
Nowhere did I say they were on the dole. What I'm saying for example is this...
Joe Bloggs works at Rover for 16 years and has been paying taxes all his working life. He is entitled to get something back out in child benefit.
Joe Polski steps off the plane and is entitled to the same benefits as Joe Bloggs, the only difference is he hasn't paid anything into the coffers. Whats more, the benefit he gets he sends back home, he doesn't even spend it in this country.
gio made another silly statement hidden away in comments.....
"There are far more important issues that affect people
here than a few overseas workers"!
640,000 of the governments admission but according to Migration Watch nearer 1 million. Thats not accounting for the self employed. Neither does it account for the 1 million estimated unaccountable illegal immigrants.
gio, not even anyone with the wildest imagination could hardly call that a few. Could they?
Nautilus said that I would make a good politician and I'm sure you would also if you could convince others that those figures were only a few :O)
So how many of that 1000000. are on the dole? the fact is 95%
actually work, pay tax and contribute directly and indirectly.
actually work, pay tax and contribute directly and indirectly.
Rich I think you are missing a few, of what I consider, important points in your reply to Lord B. and Liz. These immigrant workers have not contributed to this country regarding taxes, etc. like I have for all my working life and even now being retired I am paying tax on my pension. They have only recently entered this country and are expecting to be given the same benefits as someone born here. If they are working and contributing to the tax, etc., system then fair enough.
As far as taking our citizen's jobs they will work for far less pay than the average British citizen but the pay they do receive is more than they would have had back home in their native country. Would you be prepared to take a cut in wages and work longer hours if your boss turned around and said to you that either you work for less money and greater hours or you are out of work because he can get a foreign worker in to do the same job but for less money and longer hours.
This country over the years have fought long and hard via the trade unions to get decent wages and working conditions for our people and then these foreigners come in and abuse the system thereby putting our people out of work.
It is the same when companies close down in this country and take their buisiness abroad for lower wages such as Burberry and now today Remploy. Without hurting the feelings of Remploy employees what manufacturing employer will make alterations to their buildings and working patterns to employ physically/mentally handicapped people at the same rate of pay as an able bodied employee. It is obvious that they will not be able to work at the same pace as the fully fit worker thereby production will be reduced, costs rise and the next thing the factory closes and the work is out sourced to cheap foreign country labour.
have you ever herd of economics? "they will work for less"
Why do you thing a native worker has a devine right to get payed mega bucks for any job?
Hi Rich, I am sorry but I am noway bitter, I have no worries here about my job, I know and my boss knows what work I do, I am noway under threat.
I have worked since I left school at 15years of age, I am now 5?
So yes in away I might be scared of finding another job if need be, because of my age, but not by oversea workers, they would not be able to do the job I was trained to do, which is by the way, not the job I am doing now. Liz
I have worked since I left school at 15years of age, I am now 5?
So yes in away I might be scared of finding another job if need be, because of my age, but not by oversea workers, they would not be able to do the job I was trained to do, which is by the way, not the job I am doing now. Liz
Giovanni there was an item on the BBC news at 6:00pm regarding immigrants queing up on a street in London for moonlighting work. Apparantly this is a common site on quite a few street of London every day. When approached by the reporter only one person would talk to them as they did not want to be recognised on camera. This one person was a law lecturer back home in his native country but could not get work over here so was moonlighting.
Now Giovanni get real, please, Dole money, child benefit, housing etc,etc, should only be paid out if proved that the person claiming is entitled to it. Are you now saying that oversea works are entitled to these benefits. Liz
LB... Again not aimed at you.... Just using your provided quote.
If legal migrant workers are being paid a wage they are also paying taxes and NI contributions. I have a business which means I know what I have to do with employees and if I do not do all of the required paperwork and sort out taxes I can be both fined and/or sent to prison.
Colin "These immigrant workers have not contributed to this country regarding taxes, etc. like I have for all my working life"
Does that mean a kid fresh out of school has no rights because they have not had a working life like you? Every penny earnt by a worker in this country which has been taxed makes a contribution to this country.
If legal migrant workers are being paid a wage they are also paying taxes and NI contributions. I have a business which means I know what I have to do with employees and if I do not do all of the required paperwork and sort out taxes I can be both fined and/or sent to prison.
Colin "These immigrant workers have not contributed to this country regarding taxes, etc. like I have for all my working life"
Does that mean a kid fresh out of school has no rights because they have not had a working life like you? Every penny earnt by a worker in this country which has been taxed makes a contribution to this country.
Giovanni I had not seen your response to my previous posting until after I posted a reply on another aspect to you. I have heard of economics as I taught it in College. What I am saying is that the trade unions fought long and hard to obtain for the workers a fair days pay for a fair days work and then these foreigners come in and abuse the system and make our fellow countrymen out of work. Secondly you state what right have they to a fair wage - conversly what right have these foreigners to come into this country and abuse our working/social caring system. They are members of the EEC I will agree but do they have the right to employment/social welfare in this country without contributing. What if I was to come to your home and expect you to feed me without contributing to your household budget? The worst thing we ever did was to enter the EU and now Blair has sold us even further down the Swanny. Enoch Powell was right with his "Rivers of Blood" speech and he is now probably turning in his grave thinking "I told you so but you would not listen to me".
"Now Giovanni get real, please, Dole money, child benefit, housing etc,etc, should only be paid out if proved that the person claiming is entitled to it. Are you now saying that oversea works are entitled to these benefits. Liz"
If they pay taxes and work here...Then yes....Sorry but that is how the law works.
If they pay taxes and work here...Then yes....Sorry but that is how the law works.
Looks like Rich has already somebody in mind for my job.
Sob,Sob.
It sounds like it's a conveyer belt with Giovanni, one out, one in, only problem is I am staying in this Country, so what happens to poor old me, I will have to claim dole, housing benefit, no child benefit daughter too old now.
Whats this moonlighting!! Liz
Sob,Sob.
It sounds like it's a conveyer belt with Giovanni, one out, one in, only problem is I am staying in this Country, so what happens to poor old me, I will have to claim dole, housing benefit, no child benefit daughter too old now.
Whats this moonlighting!! Liz
Rich you are now being silly - a youngster straight from school obviuosly has not contributed to the system but his/her parent probably has. Also as that person was possibly born here as a UK citizen he/she has the right to the social welfare that this country is offering. Thinking of it he/she would probably be better by going private because this caring Labour government has ruined the welfare system in all shape and form - education, health, law, etc. These immigrants must be stupid wanting to settle in a country that is literally on its backside and sinking even further.LB... Again not aimed at you.... Just using your provided quote.
If legal migrant workers are being paid a wage they are also paying taxes and NI contributions. I have a business which means I know what I have to do with employees and if I do not do all of the required paperwork and sort out taxes I can be both fined and/or sent to prison.
Colin "These immigrant workers have not contributed to this country regarding taxes, etc. like I have for all my working life"
Does that mean a kid fresh out of school has no rights because they have not had a working life like you? Every penny earnt by a worker in this country which has been taxed makes a contribution to this country.
Thought you were coming to wales Liz to make a fresh start and earn megabucks to send money home.
I was Colin, but you mentioned this moonlighting, might try a bit in Cornwall first, if it does not work out I will come to Wales, to claim dole,housing benefit, p.s do I have to own a passport? only mine expired quite a few years ago. Liz
Now Rich, you know what I mean, entitled means over the years of working in the UK, not l week. Liz
Rich you may feel that it is the social duty of this country to accept without question any and all migrants but it is Liz's right to question the viability of this point and to state her points without the accusation of being bitter and feeling hard done by. As I stated earlier in this topic I hold greedy employers partially to blame as well as opportunist politicians who have over the last eleven years lowered our borders to all and asunder. This does not however stop me from recognising that the influx of huge numbers into the job market, most of whom are happy to accept wages that undercut the previously accepted rates, have both forced the pay rates down for local workers and taken jobs that could be taken by the forementioned locals. Perhaps having your own business you are happy to see wages driven down but don't expect the same reaction from the average working class man (or woman) when you promote a method of reducing their standard of living.
Marc
Marc
You do not need a passport just a couple of quid to pay the toll on the Severn Bridge. Thinking along the lines of what you said for dole, housing benefits, etc. we are the mugs for working all our lives and then seeing our efforts being eroded away by the lame, sick and lazy of both this country and foreign immigrants - legal or otherwise. If we were to live in a council house we would not have to worry if the roof blew off, the external repairs and decoration, etc. Could have a mobility car, free TV, holidays, clothing allowance for the children, free school meals for them, holidays paid by the state, etc. Why the hell did I work all my life?
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